Concrete pool up north

[Henry Porter]

Whoozer It's first now when we can swim in it that I have felt pride in what we have accomplished. There are quite a few people who have praised the way it turned out and then it's a great feeling knowing that you have done it yourself :-D
I can see it in front of me how beautyful it will be once it's all done but in the meantime I'm very happy just the way it is with gravels on the ground and raw walls and all.

To get the system to run have taken more efforts than I thought it would and there is a lot that I need to do before it work the way I want it to do. But I can atleast get the system to start in the morning and shot it down in the evenings and that is good enough for now. I continue to work with small things most of the day's but very very slowly
I have made the forms for the fridge and the gas tube to the steak/wook pan that we shall install in the kitchen. I've decided to put out the gastube from under the zink to the outside of the kitchen on the back. So I will pour a small foundation back there for it and make a little roof over it to protect the tube from the weather.

But enough of that! I have taken my first poolwater test today, awesome test kit very easy to understand
Here is my numbers:

Salt 4240ppm (swg manufactor recommend 4000-13500ppm)
CYA 0ppm
CH 90ppm
TA 50ppm
FC 2,5ppm
CC 0,5ppm
TC 3ppm

I made a daily test with the taylor test kit that showed
FC 3ppm
PH 7,4ppm

Is the daily test accurate enough to determine the real PH for the water or do I need to go the pool store?

I've read about different concentrations of CH the poolwater needs depending if it's a plasterpool or a vinyl. I wonder what figures I shall look at with porcelaine tiles and epoxy in the groutlines? Can the CH I have today be enough?

And also shall I bother to look at borates for my situation or is it overkill now in the beginning?

And most important in wich order shall I start to balance my water. shall I start with TA before PH for example?

I can say that the water is crystalclear and I have run the swg at the lowest output for 12 hours today. Pool has been exposed to direct sun all day and with the family bathing on and off through out the day Running the pump for 12 hours/day and let it rest over the night is something I think I will continue with if it sounds good to you guys.

How bad it is to use the pool with no CYA and with a relative low FC(that I assume 2,5ppm is) under sunny conditions? I will order all chemicals on the net tonight and it will take a few days before it arrives and we want to use the pool in the meantime of course.

Another thing I didn't really understood is why a swg pool require higher CYA than a chlorine pools?

Alot of questions I know but I have spent time in pool school but it doesen't get any better than this :? Frightening???........ Oh yes it most certainly is but I do the best that I can

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

TA DA.... yeah! This is sooo exciting!

Keep an eye on the chlorine level since there is no CYA and you have bathers as well as sunlight. But that level is fine for now (assuming the SWG can keep up with the demand). Have some liquid on hand for quick increases if necessary. Get some CYA soon!

The PH test is accurate and all you need. Your PH is perfectly fine where it is. Normally that would be the first thing to adjust, but since it's good, move on to TA...

I'd consider a little Baking Soda for the TA - just enough to get you to 70.

I'm honestly not certain about the CH level in your situation....

A higher CYA allows you to turn down the SWG which will provide a more stable PH... ph rise is often an issue in SWG pools.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Oh, I forgot....
Borates are completely optional. Many on here don't use them (me, Duraleigh among others.)

If you want to use them then by all means feel free to begin that process... but I would wait just a couple of weeks until you "know your pool" - the water chemistry side of things. I KNOW that You know every inch of the thing - but you really don't know yet how the water is going to behave for you. So I would get to know your water now... for a couple weeks, testing PH and FC daily, TA weekly (CH and CYA monthly -after its at the level you want). Then when you are confident you've got it down, do the Borates if you want.

 

[Henry Porter]

Thanks FPM
I search for CYA to buy over the net here and I find something that they call calcium hypochlorite. Can that be the thing that I shall buy and is that what the poolcalculator calls stabilazor? It's not solid nor in liquid form but in powder form. Comes in a container of 6 pounds. Do you think I can trust the calculators figures which wants me to add 152 oz of solid stabilizer(volume) to raise my CYA to 75ppm?

To higher my TA is it regular baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) that takes care of that? the kind that I can buy in a grocery store? The calculator want's me to add 55oz(volume) to raise my TA with 20ppm.

puh!! it's not the easiest job to maitain a pool in the beginning

 

[Melt In The Sun]

Mats, calcium hypochlorite is not CYA; it is a form of chlorine. CYA is "Cyanuric Acid."
You're getting the hang of this just fine.

 

[Henry Porter]

Oh, I forgot....
Borates are completely optional. Many on here don't use them (me, Duraleigh among others.)

If you want to use them then by all means feel free to begin that process... but I would wait just a couple of weeks until you "know your pool" - the water chemistry side of things. I KNOW that You know every inch of the thing - but you really don't know yet how the water is going to behave for you. So I would get to know your water now... for a couple weeks, testing PH and FC daily, TA weekly (CH and CYA monthly -after its at the level you want). Then when you are confident you've got it down, do the Borates if you want.

Just what I wanted to hear, one less chemical to keep track of
It's funny though how little we know about poolchemistry over here. I've asked the local poolstore guy that helped me with my plumbing what I should do to get our pool swimable asap for our kids. he said, nothing more than adding a little chlorine and then you ready to go. I knew that he was wrong but I didn't have enough knowledge to take the discussion with him so I said alright that sounds good. But if I meet him next season will I teach him about FC CC TC TA CYA CH what was it more??... feels like it was something more But I like the guy in some way so I will be easy on him :-D

 

[Barbara C]

pH is the only thing left out. Good job!

 

[Butterfly]

Thanks FPM
I search for CYA to buy over the net here and I find something that they call calcium hypochlorite. Can that be the thing that I shall buy and is that what the poolcalculator calls stabilazor?

No, that's not stabilizer a/k/a conditioner. You are looking for ingredients of (close to 100%) Cyanuric Acid.
It's not solid nor in liquid form but in powder form. Comes in a container of 6 pounds. Do you think I can trust the calculators figures which wants me to add 152 oz of solid stabilizer(volume) to raise my CYA to 75ppm?
Jason's Pool Calculator says your pool needs about 10 pounds of granular CYA to reach about 75 PPM CYA.

To higher my TA is it regular baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) that takes care of that? the kind that I can buy in a grocery store? The calculator want's me to add 55oz(volume) to raise my TA with 20ppm.
Yep, regular baking soda from the grocery store. In fact, that is where I buy mine for less than 50 cents per pound....since I rarely need to add much.

puh!! it's not the easiest job to maitain a pool in the beginning
Aw, you're having a blast and we know it! :lol: Once you get the pool balanced, it'll be a breeze to maintain! btw, I don't use borates either :-D

 

[Henry Porter]

Mats, calcium hypochlorite is not CYA; it is a form of chlorine. CYA is "Cyanuric Acid."
You're getting the hang of this just fine.

I don't know how many of my replies that have vanished from my computer tonight, just when I shall submitt them

Melt! I saw now when I've read on that page that sells what I thought was calcium hypochlorite that it's not calcium hypochlorithe in the container. It says that the containers contents shall protect the sun from breaking down the calcium hypochlorite in the pool, I've miss read it

If it's CYA what about it's in powder form and not solid or liquid that the calculator is based upon? Do you think it's safe to use the figures I have got from the pool calculator anyway? Have you seen or used powder before?

hahaha Barbara I knew there was something more. How could I forget about PH, that the only abbreviation I'm familliar with before this chemistry talk

 

[Henry Porter]

Thanks FPM
I search for CYA to buy over the net here and I find something that they call calcium hypochlorite. Can that be the thing that I shall buy and is that what the poolcalculator calls stabilazor?

No, that's not stabilizer a/k/a conditioner. You are looking for ingredients of (close to 100%) Cyanuric Acid.
It's not solid nor in liquid form but in powder form. Comes in a container of 6 pounds. Do you think I can trust the calculators figures which wants me to add 152 oz of solid stabilizer(volume) to raise my CYA to 75ppm?
Jason's Pool Calculator says your pool needs about 10 pounds of granular CYA to reach about 75 PPM CYA.

To higher my TA is it regular baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) that takes care of that? the kind that I can buy in a grocery store? The calculator want's me to add 55oz(volume) to raise my TA with 20ppm.
Yep, regular baking soda from the grocery store. In fact, that is where I buy mine for less than 50 cents per pound....since I rarely need to add much.

puh!! it's not the easiest job to maitain a pool in the beginning
Aw, you're having a blast and we know it! :lol: Once you get the pool balanced, it'll be a breeze to maintain! btw, I don't use borates either :-D

Hi Butterfly
Thanks alot for calculate the figures for me. I have tried the calculator a few times and I thought I've got it right this time but apparently not :?
I will take a closer look at it tomorrow it's almost 1:30 in the night here right now and i don't think I can think straight any longer. I'm not so sure what a nights sleep will do in that sense but I will give it a try.
Nevertheless will I call the the poolstore that sell the 6 pounds container if it is cyanuric acid, if it is I'll take two of them .

 

[chem geek]

Cyanuric Acid is also known as stabilizer or conditioner. If you can't find it anywhere, then see if you can find Dichlor as a source or chlorine (ingredients will say something like "Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione" or "Sodium dichloroisocyanurate" or "sodium troclosene" perhaps with "dihydrate" appended to the name). With Dichlor power/granular, which is a type of stabilized chlorine, for every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) that it adds it also increases Cyanuric Aci (CYA) by 9 ppm. So it's a way of using chlorine initially to build up the CYA level. It would be better to find pure CYA, but if you can't find it, Dichlor will work though it will take time to build up the CYA.

Without any CYA in the water at all, you may find that you lose half of your FC every hour near noontime if your pool is exposed to sunlight.

As for your Calcium Hardness (CH), if you used true epoxy, then it would not need calcium carbonate saturation. If you had use grout, then that is calcium carbonate and would need the water to be saturated with calcium carbonate to protect it.

The high salt level requirement for your saltwater chlorine generator system is potentially more corrosive so if you have a gas heater see if it is salt-tolerant with a heat exchanger made of either titanium or cupro-nickel alloy and not just pure copper. For extra protection, you could add a zinc sacrificial anode buried in moist soil and attached to the bonding wire. This is especially necessary if you have aluminum in contact with the water or any lower-grade stainless steel including that found in light rings and screws.

Richard

 

[PaulR]

CYA here comes as a powder/granular, people say "solid" but it's not tablets or chunks.
Sometimes we see it as a liquid, which works faster but costs about twice as much.
--paulr

 

[Henry Porter]

The high salt level requirement for your saltwater chlorine generator system is potentially more corrosive so if you have a gas heater see if it is salt-tolerant with a heat exchanger made of either titanium or cupro-nickel alloy and not just pure copper. For extra protection, you could add a zinc sacrificial anode buried in moist soil and attached to the bonding wire. This is especially necessary if you have aluminum in contact with the water or any lower-grade stainless steel including that found in light rings and screws.
Richard

Hi Richard!
I thought 4000ppm was the norm for SWG's. I've read in pool school that salt have a tendense to decrease over the first couple of weeks so I aimed for 200ppm over what the recommended levels for my swg is. I waited with adding the last bag of salt and the swg didn't larm for low salt levels when I run it on the lower levels. I would probably be good with 3500ppm and I will try to get it there over time.
My heater has a titanium exchanger so the only thing I'm worried about is the screws to the lamps. It's a Hayward product so I expect quality in screws and such things but you'll never know.

Paul! thanks for the heads up! It's CYA in powder form. If I'm lucky I might be able to get it at our local poolstore, I will call him this morning to see if he got it on the shelf!

Started this morning with my new routine!!! Taylor test kit the little blue one :-D
FC in between 1-2 so I increased the settings on the swg by one tosee if I can get the levels up until I remove the solar blankets. The PH on the other hand was the same as yesterday

I found a few happy swim pics of my daughters from when the pool wasn't filled up all the way that I will thought I could share .
But first! ( this might be an old trick, i don't know) If you have problems that you skimmersocks wants to float up in the basket(especially when you turn the pump off) Cut a piece of hose in right length and squirl it in the basket that helps keeping the sock in place just fine, and also adds a little weight that keeps the basket down in it's place

Regarding CYA! How long do I have to wait until we can use the pool? I've read somewhere about the "sock method" is that the way to go when you have to increase as much as 75ppm?[attachment=2:uix7mhl4]Happy peopleIMG_8461.gif[/attachment:uix7mhl4][attachment=1:uix7mhl4]Happy peopleIMG_8463.gif[/attachment:uix7mhl4][attachment=0:uix7mhl4]Happy peopleIMG_8498.gif[/attachment:uix7mhl4]

 

[Heckpools]

Mats,

I REALLY think you should contact http://www.poolspanews.com/ and tell them about your amazing pool build. Send them pics, and a link to this forum youve made. They are a pool and spa magaizine and i would bet you anythiing they would love to interview you, and have you featured in one of their issues. Not only did you build an amazing looking pool, you practicly did it by yourself!

EMAIL THEM!!! would be so cool to see you in there man

Matt

 

[cmbutterbaugh]

Off subject: My 16 year old daughter recently asked what my favorite country was when I did the Eurail/backpack thing back in the early '80's. I told her Sweden because the country is beautiful and so are the people--inside and out. I have never seen such natural beauty in the human race as in Sweden LOL! As I looked at the pictures of your family, they reminded me exactly why I told her this. Your family is beautiful! Enjoy your pool!

Cindy

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

We recommend the sock method when you might need to backwash, etc. but since this is fresh fill you can add it directly to the skimmer.

Just leave your pump running for 24-48 hours and the CYA will dissolve in the filter. Don't clean it or backwash it for a week if you can. You can swim anytime adding the CYA you don't have to wait.

It will take 5-7 days to register on your tests, so don't waste reagent. Just assume that the level you targeted (say 60ppm is your target amount and you calculate a dose amount based on that target) then assume your CYA level is 60 and maintain your FC levels accordingly. Hope that makes sense

Keep those girls under lock and key... gorgeous!

 

[chem geek]

I thought 4000ppm was the norm for SWG's. I've read in pool school that salt have a tendense to decrease over the first couple of weeks so I aimed for 200ppm over what the recommended levels for my swg is. I waited with adding the last bag of salt and the swg didn't larm for low salt levels when I run it on the lower levels. I would probably be good with 3500ppm and I will try to get it there over time.
My heater has a titanium exchanger so the only thing I'm worried about is the screws to the lamps. It's a Hayward product so I expect quality in screws and such things but you'll never know.

In Australia, the norm is higher and often around 5000 ppm, but in the U.S. it's more commonly around 3000 ppm. Most people don't have problems with their SWG systems in terms of corrosion, but some do so it's just something to keep an eye on and use appropriate parts and equipment. Even non-SWG pools have salt in them, but typically at a lower level in the 500-1000 ppm or sometimes 1500 ppm range. I wasn't so concerned with your 4000 ppm, but you noted a range of 4000-13500ppm recommended by the manufacturer and the higher salt levels would be worse as far as corrosion rates. Your titanium heat exchanger will do fine and if you find the screws in your lamps have any issue, those are easily replaced.

 

[Ohm_Boy]

Those are some mighty lovely young ladies. Oh, and that's a nice pool, too.

 

[Henry Porter]

Matt thanks for your kind words. Coming from someone that works with pools is a real compliment for me that I appreciate alot I looked into the link that you posted and my spontanious reaction was that you got to be kidding.. Hahaha the pools that was posted in there is not in the same ballpark as mine. I'm glad you like my build but in a magazine like that, no I don't think so

Sara my oldest daughter came home one day not long ago and said that she wanted to do dreadlocks. I wasn't all that glad over that in the beginning if I express myself carefully. She insisted and gathering info about it on the net how it is living with dreads and where the best saloon are to do them. We ended up doing them in our home town after long discussons. Three times as expensive as the saloon she had looked up in Gothenburgh but the owner of this saloon seemed to be very serious not something we could say about the saloon in Gothenburgh. It took over 20 hours to make them and they were two of them working on her some of the time.
Now when she have had them for a while I really think they suits her perfect. That what was the african hair dresser said whe she saw Sara for the first time, that she could carrying them, not something everyone can do according to her.
She is all natural with all her feckles on her face and wears no make up at all, as the opposite to Elin that is more like me :? love make up and branded clothes and have more of an attitude but also much more insecure when it comes down to it. She have a heart of an angel though and I can see so much of me in her that is almost frightening from time to time, so they are compleately different.

Is this a poolforum??

FPM everything you say make sense to me I did just as you said and put the CYA in the skimmers but I left the skimmersocks in the baskets so the CYA should dissolve before it was sucked down into the filter. Didn't take as long as I thought it would. I added 4,5lbs and it took like half hour before it was diluted with the water.
I don't know if it was my imagination or not but I thought the water became a bit more clody but I guess it will be better tomorrow when I have let the pump run over night. I did also add TA rise and PH rise. That was a little low when I meassured it tonight.
I'm not gonna reach the recommended levels of CYA with the amount I have added tonight. I will take full water tests tomorrow and see which level I'm at.
I was thinking to myself that since our pool not are exposed to as harsh sun as many of the pools in the US are, that I can start with a little lower levels and see how it works. Is that a stupid thought? I saw Richards FC/CYA chart that I can follow with whatever levels I start off with.
BTW Richard I meassured my salt levels again and it was 3900ppm and that is more accurate to the amount of salt I added. I guess that the salt wasn't all dissolved on my first test. Still no larming about low salt levels

I will post my numbers tomorrow morning.

Thanks again for all the nice words everyone :bowdown:

 

[lbridges]

Even though the CYA has dissolved enough to pass through the sock, it might not be fully dissolved. In the case of CYA, I believe you should wait at least 4 days before you add more based on test results.