cheapest automation to deal with pump not keeping time?

[Pemolis]

I posted a while back that my intelliflo vsp loses its internal clock whenever the power goes out for more than 10 seconds (it resets to 12:00). The issue is that there are times that my booster pump will wind up running when the pump is off due to the power reset (the booster pump runs off a intermatic time (the yellow circle ones). whelp my booster pump burned out due to this (was away for a week and house had a 30 minute blackout).

To fix the intelliflo would cost somewhere north of 1,000 (thats how much the drive costs).

I am thinking of ways to bypass the clock issue with the intelliflo and I am thinking that sometype of automation system would be best.

Does the intellisync or intelliconnect bypass the clock on the intelliflo? Meaning if the power goes off, then on, would the intellisync or intelliconnect fix the clock once the power goes back?

Also, I think getting a system that I can connect the booster pump and the vsp pump maybe best, but I have a budget for it. I was thinking of doing a intellisync and a digital intermatic in combo but the price is about the same as the intelliconnect.

I am not interested in running the pool pump 24/7 due to the electrical prices lately.

Any thoughts?

 

[guinness]

According to the Intelliflo wiki it should retain time for several days when power is lost, but apparently the capacitor used for this purpose is not serviceable.

If you read the IntelliConnect User's Guide it states the following under IntelliFlo Programming section:

Programs 1-4 of an IntelliFlo pump can be controlled and programmed from the IntelliFlo screen

Some have concluded that means the IntelliConnect does not directly control the pump but relies on the pumps own scheduler. Maybe someone who owns an IntelliConnect like @mancona could confirm this. The IntelliSync appears to use similar software to the IntelliConnect.

So back to square one. The only cheap solution I can think of is using njsPC in concert with REM. You would need to buy a cheap single-board computer (SBC) and a relay board. @rstrouse could probably give you some guidance if you decide to go this route.

 

[rstrouse]

Some have concluded that means the IntelliConnect does not directly control the pump but relies on the pumps own scheduler. Maybe someone who owns an IntelliConnect like @mancona could confirm this. The IntelliSync appears to use similar software to the IntelliConnect.

That is what we have found.

So back to square one. The only cheap solution I can think of is using njsPC in concert with REM. You would need to buy a cheap single-board computer (SBC) and a relay board. @rstrouse could probably give you some guidance if you decide to go this route.

Happy to guide you through it. It's really pretty easy to get up and running.

 

[Pemolis]

checked it out and I run the risk of not getting it up, which if I know myself, I kinda don't need another house project. Checked the price for a drive for the intelliflo vs a entire new pump and can get a brand new non polaris pump for the cost of the drive. So going that way.

 

[Dirk]

Simpler/cheaper solutions. Either:

Put a current-sensing relay on the line running to the IntelliFlo that would prevent the booster from getting power unless the IntelliFlo was actually running.

Or put a flow switch in your plumbing to accomplish the same thing.

Or do both. Neither will re-sync your timers, but they will protect the booster from running when there is insufficient flow.

Somewhere around here is a thread about a current-sensing relay.

 

[Dirk]

Quickie TFP search returned this thread, there are others:

Current Sensing Relay for SWG

There are lots of scattered experiences throughout this forum regarding current sensing relays to trigger the SWG's power source based on current flow to the pump. There is not a clear solution though - "buy this, hook it up like that". This thread is an attempt to get a direct answer to the...

www.troublefreepool.com

Instead of using the relay to turn something on, you'd wire the relay in series with the booster's timer, so both would have to be on for the booster to get power. It's a simple circuit.

A flow switch can't carry the current required by a booster, so you'd need an additional relay. The flow switch would close the relay, the relay would be wired in series with the booster timer.

Either solution requires a bit of DIY, but the circuits are quite simple and the parts readily available.

 

[Dirk]

The current-sensing relay linked in the thread I just referenced looks to be about $111. There may cheaper ones.

The flow switch I have in use on my pad is about $29. The tee to plumb it in would be a few dollars.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR8371I/

The flow-switch solution would need a relay, but which one would depend on the voltage and amperage draw of the booster, and the available voltage to run the relay. Something along these lines (8 bucks!):

https://www.amazon.com/Tnisesm-Miniature-Power-120VAC-NT90-AC120V/dp/B08TR7WJX2/

But you might need a 240V version, or one with more than a 20A rating, but you get the idea.

You'll need an outdoor box or something in which to install the flow-switch relay, to keep it out of the weather. Or maybe you could squeeze it into the booster timer chassis.

I had a similar need, and went with a flow switch because it just "felt" more reliable (plus it was way cheaper!). A current-sensing relay only knows if the IntelliFlo is drawing enough power to pump water, not if the water is actually being pumped. It's conceivable that a malfunctioning IntelliFlo could draw power, but not actually be moving water. A bad day would be for the IntelliFlo to break down and stop moving water and then your booster blows up too! A flow switch, on the other hand, reacts to water actually moving in your pipes, which can't happen unless the IntelliFlo is on and functioning correctly, which is what your booster wants. Of course any gizmo can fail, but a flow switch and a simple relay is a pretty reliable mechanical combo, not reliant on any sort of electronics.

 

[guinness]

Another option is the Oasis automation system by Waterway. It supports Pentair Intelliflo according to the Instruction Manual and has relays for the booster pump. Found a cheap used one on eBay that would suit your needs.

Oasis Pool & Spa Control | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Oasis Pool & Spa Control at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Dirk]

checked it out and I run the risk of not getting it up, which if I know myself, I kinda don't need another house project. Checked the price for a drive for the intelliflo vs a entire new pump and can get a brand new non polaris pump for the cost of the drive. So going that way.

I missed this post before I wrote the manifesto, but you might consider the flow switch solution even if you decide a new pump is still the way to go. It would protect your booster should the next pump develop a flaw. Or if the Intermatic loses time or one of its little tabs moves (which is what my old one would always do, my old booster and two-speed pump got out of sync all the time).

 

[Pemolis]

Going to pickup a cal pump as its the same pump as the circupool at half the price, and buy a digital intermatic timer, that should keep the time in sync. I'll look into the relay as a good backup option.

 

[guinness]

If you're going with a new pump be aware that there are some like the Waterway Power Defender that have an auxilary relay built into them for controlling booster pumps. That way you could dispense with the Intermatic timer altogether.

 

[Pemolis]

If you're going with a new pump be aware that there are some like the Waterway Power Defender that have an auxilary relay built into them for controlling booster pumps. That way you could dispense with the Intermatic timer altogether.

.... I will look into that. Thank you.

 

[Pemolis]

So decided to close this out after doing some math. Outside of the time, the pump runs fine. So if I run it at the minimum rpm of 650, I believe it draws as much power as a lightbulb. Running it at 16 hours a day, maybe would cost me 30 cents a day. So roughly I am looking at 9 dollars a month, or about 100 dollars a year. It'd be 9 years till I get back the cash with fixing the drive, or 5 years with any other option.

So cancelling everything ordered and will just use the pump until it dies.

 

[Dirk]

If that works for you, then put it to bed. But I gave you an option that might be as cheap as $40, ROI in just over four months. And unless you run your pump 24 hours a day, that booster pump is not fully protected at 16 hours. So your math should really be adjusted, at least if you want to calculate how my solution stacks up (which does protect the booster no matter how either the pump's time or the Intermatic timer are set, or if either gets out of whack, by any amount of time).

Plus there is the matter of wear and tear on the pump, not just the cost of electricity. Depending on your yard's environment (how dusty or "leafy" it is), you could conceivably only need 3 or 4 hours of filter-pump runtime. Booster pump could be run within that window. Versus running your pump 24 (or 16) hours? That's a lot of unneeded wear on the pump.

Just sayin'...

 

[ajw22]

Plus there is the matter of wear and tear on the pump, not just the cost of electricity. Depending on your yard's environment (how dusty or "leafy" it is), you could conceivably only need 3 or 4 hours of filter-pump runtime. Booster pump could be run within that window. Versus running your pump 24 (or 16) hours? That's a lot of unneeded wear on the pump.

I will make the case that running a pump 24/7 puts the least wear on it.

Thermal cycles cause the most wear. Start/stops cause wear. Both casue expansion/contractions of parts that cause wear.

Running a pump 24/7 keeps the pump components at a steady state and the least wear.

 

[Dirk]

I will make the case that running a pump 24/7 puts the least wear on it.

Thermal cycles cause the most wear. Start/stops cause wear. Both casue expansion/contractions of parts that cause wear.

Running a pump 24/7 keeps the pump components at a steady state and the least wear.

And running it 24/7 would also fully protect the booster (except from a pump failure). Assuming Allen is on to something there, running it 16 hours a day is kinda the least effective solution: doesn't fully protect the booster, and wears out the pump more than just running it four hours with a flow switch or just running it 24/7 without one. The flow switch adds some protection should the pump stop or fail while the booster timer is on.