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Thread: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

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    Angry Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    I have been fighting issues with my pool this year for the entire summer. Around Easter my vinyl walls stained badly. I was told by the pool store to try absorbic acid treatment, which worked great for a few weeks but staining returned and algae appeared. Tried a new clorox all-in-one chemical and this raised my stabilizer way to high. Told by pool store to empty out half of pool water and chlorinate. This seemed to work but staining started to appear again. So I treated again with absorbic acid and this time put in a metal out with a maintenance treatment of metal control. Now the stain is gone but water is very, very cloudy and no matter what I do cannot get it clear for the past 3+ weeks. Went to pool store today and this is my readings:

    Free Avail Chlorine - 0
    Total Avail Chlorine - 1
    Calcium Hardness - 0
    Cyanuric Acid - 75
    Total Alk - 110
    pH - 7.4
    Phosphates - 500

    Was told to do the following:

    1. Vacuum pool then add 2 lbs. of Power Powder Plus Shock; brush and let circulate overnight
    2. Tomorrow add a clarifier
    3. Add PhosFee to reduce the phosphates
    4. Clean filter
    5. Slowly add about 40 - 50 lbs of Hardness Plus 10 lbs. at a time every 12 hours to increase calcium hardness

    Was told the water should start clearing once the shock and clarifier are in but I am just not so sure anymore, especially after reading posts in this forum. I was reading about the slaming and wondered if I should try that but was concerned with the liquid bleach being added in such large amounts. Is this regular laundry bleach that is used and how much should be put in at a time? I have had so many different treatments and stuff entered into this pool and spent a small fortune on all these treatments and chemicals I am ready to blow the thing up. Needless to say this summer has not been an enjoyable one with not being able to enjoy the pool; would love to get it clear again to maybe get some use this summer. Any suggestions or help here would be very much appreciated.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Welcome to TFP! You're at the right place to get you pool in great condition! My advice is to STOP going to the pool store for anything. That is why your pool is in the condition it is currently. They test your water for free, but it ends up being anything but free! From this point forward you need to only add bleach, muriatic acid, baking soda, borax, soda ash and stabilizer. All of this can be purchased at Walmart. DO NOT add anything unless instructed by one of the experts on this forum. Now, don't walk, but run an order a TF100 test kit from tftestkits.net or purchase a Taylor K2006c kit. Once you get kit in hand run the full panel of test and post them in this thread.

    I would also recommend that you read and then reread Pool School while you wait on your kit. You are already ahead of the game by making your first post.
    39YO 13K gallon former SWAMP/MONEY PIT, concrete bottom/Fiberglass Walls, Ecotech VS pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Dolphin DX5 Plus, Loop-Loc safety cover and YES, I have a TFT-100 test kit!

    Shock Level and Maintain - CL/CYA Chart

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Welcome!

    Our suggestion will be educating yourself, testing your own water, and understanding what to do to prevent problems, and fix them if they do arise. Getting away from the pool store will be the best thing, because It's all about knowledge rather than what products you use. What you've just added won't get you out of trouble. To give you solid advice we need solid test results and unfortunately, we find most often that you can't trust the Pool Store. Get a good test kit, begin reading in Pool School, and take control of this pool yourself. We can get you back into a nice pool if you're willing to learn and you'll get started quickly. It's really much easier than you imagine, and you can find many here who've turned things around just this summer alone.
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    Welcome!

    Our suggestion will be educating yourself, testing your own water, and understanding what to do to prevent problems, and fix them if they do arise. Getting away from the pool store will be the best thing, because It's all about knowledge rather than what products you use. What you've just added won't get you out of trouble. To give you solid advice we need solid test results and unfortunately, we find most often that you can't trust the Pool Store. Get a good test kit, begin reading in Pool School, and take control of this pool yourself. We can get you back into a nice pool if you're willing to learn and you'll get started quickly. It's really much easier than you imagine, and you can find many here who've turned things around just this summer alone.
    Ditto to everything Patrick said - this forum can help you take control of your pool! You will be glad you did!
    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Thank you for the replies. I will definitely order the TF100 Test Kit and send you my test results. Hopefully this test kit is easier to read then some of the ones I have used in the past. In the meantime I will read the links you both have suggested. I didn't see any muriatic acid or soda ash at Walmart but I do have the pool baking soda and borax which I have used but this time they didn't seem to get water clear as they had in the past. Does it matter which liquid bleach I get, as long as it is 8.25% sodium hypochlorite?
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    My Wal-Mart doesn't sell Muratic Acid, but you can buy it at Lowe's. I've never bought the soda ash, so I can't advise there. As long as the bleach is just that - plain bleach - no fresh scents or splashless, etc. Just plain ole bleach 8.25% Or higher. Check the dates if there happen to be a lot on the shelf. I buy mine at wal-mart.
    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    I get muriatic acid at Lowes, pool section near garden section. Soda ash is on the laundry aisle at the grocery store.

    More on pool chemicals here, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    I get muriatic acid at Lowes, pool section near garden section. Soda ash is on the laundry aisle at the grocery store.

    More on pool chemicals here, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    pooldv, we are on the same wavelength tonight . I saw earlier where we both recommended an OCLT to someone at about the same time.
    26,000 IG, pebble tec, flagstone, pentair Triton II TR100 sand filter & VS+SVRS 3hp multi-speed pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Pentair Booster Cleaner, spillover spa, waterfall, Taylor K-2006 testkit
    [It is better to know how to learn, than to know. - Dr. Seuss[/I]

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Hi there,

    Firstly, I am in Australia, so I can't give you specific product recommendations.

    Does the stain appear to be organic (algae/mould) or does it appear metallic (Iron/rust/copper) staining? If it is organic, the best treatment is to superchlorinate and add an algaecide. Abscorbic acid is best for removing metallic stains. Usually it's best to add it when the chlorine is <1ppm otherwise clouding can occur. Some metal control treatments (liquid based) contain phosphates, which can compound the issue. I'd say the cloudiness is due to the chlorine being too high and reacting with the ascorbic acid. You definitely need to get some chlorine back into the pool! I would advise against using large amounts of bleach/sodium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite as these types of chlorine are alkaline. If you do, add small amounts at a time and keep checking and correcting your pH. Metallic stains are more likely to occur when the pH is too high (alkaline) as metals are more soluble (dissolve better) when the pH is in the correct range.

    I don't know how it is in the US, but I wouldn't "run" from the pool shop. They will give you their recommendation. You don't necessarily have to take their advice. At the end of the day they are a business and are there to make money. I do agree with the previous posts that you should try reading up on some of the materials on this website. If you have the time and the willpower to look after the pool yourself, you will save yourself some money.

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    mboogaard,

    "Running" from the pool store is generally a good idea. I used to defend Pool Stores and their methods....no longer. The overwhelming evidence after 8 years of this forum is pretty clear. Their advice and testing simply can not be trusted.
    I'd say the cloudiness is due to the chlorine being too high and reacting with the ascorbic acid. You definitely need to get some chlorine back into the pool! I would advise against using large amounts of bleach/sodium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite as these types of chlorine are alkaline.
    This advice makes no sense. Please read more of what we teach in Pool School before tossing up advice that is simply erroneous.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Thank you duraleigh; I was a bit more confused after reading mboogaard post. I did order my TF-100 kit today from Pool Supply World; they have it for the same prices as TFTest.net but they have free shipping and no tax. I also ordered the XL Option and Borates Strips. I do have an HTH Test Kit that seems to do some of the same thing but I take it that it probably is not as accurate since it was much less in price (about $25.00).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you pooldv and pogueld.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Alright! Great test kit! Give us some test results as soon you get it.

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Okay, I took the test with the hth 6-way test kit to see what results I got . It seems to have the same reagents as the TF-100 but I do have a TF-100 kit ordered and on its way. I wanted to try to see how the testing turned out to see if I could get this cloudiness issue fixed. If I did it right (I am new at this type of testing) I got the following results:

    Total Chlorine - .5
    pH - 7.0
    TA - 120
    CH - it said the sample should turn red if hardness is present when adding 5 drops of Hardness Indicator. Well, my water turned purple, not red, which I imagine means I have 0 calcium hardness
    CYA - 60

    So what now? Help!
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Others will chime in but bring your PH up to 7.5 with muriatic acid. Use Pool Math to determine how much to add to bring to desired level.

    Then bring FCup to around 10 for yourCYA level. Again,use pool math to determine FC level for your CYA, but it is about 10. With vinyl liner don't worry about CH

    You need to get FCup fast but adjust PH first, then you can add bleach a half hour later
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    It is important to keep PH between 7.2 and 7.8.
    It is very important to keep your chlorine level at target for your CYA at all times. And never let it drop below minimum ever. This Chlorine CYA Chart has the target level for ypur CYA. Having FC below minimum leaves your pool unsanitary and algae will grow.

    CH is not important in a vinyl liner pool.
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Thank you both. I suppose I can use Borax to bring the PH up to 7.5, right?
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Yes, borax is good. Use Pool Math
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    to figure out how much borax to add.

    Highest priority is probably to get some bleach in there, as you are way too low for your CYA level.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Other than adding one small jug of Clorox each day, I would do nothing until your TF-100 arrives. Then post up some meaningful results that we all have faith in and we'll adjust from those.
    CH - it said the sample should turn red if hardness is present when adding 5 drops of Hardness Indicator. Well, my water turned purple, not red, which I imagine means I have 0 calcium hardness
    I doubt that but let's wait on your TF-100.

    Meanwhile, a picture of your pool water is often helpful.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    ^the ch test can turn purple before red when you have metals present in the water. The purple flash point, as they call it, is one way to confirm you have metals in the water... If it never turned red...not sure what to make of that

    Are you on a well? Do you know the source of your staining? Did the pool store ever actually test for iron and copper...the one thing they can test for?

    With metals in the water you might wish to keep your ph a little lower, eg 7.2, because that helps avoid staining.
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    Re: Disgusted and Confused on What to Do Next

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Other than adding one small jug of Clorox each day, I would do nothing until your TF-100 arrives. Then post up some meaningful results that we all have faith in and we'll adjust from those.I doubt that but let's wait on your TF-100.

    Meanwhile, a picture of your pool water is often helpful.
    I thought the hth 6-way drop kit was considered reliable, although it is missing the capacity to measure high chlorine levels, as needed for TFP methods. Can't we give credence to the OP's reported pH and CYA readings?
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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