I agree. Just goes to show how much stuff there is in the water that needs to be removed.
I just backwashed it again a few minutes ago and added in another dose of cellulose. (I've gone through almost the whole bag now)
10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp
- Thread starter Luclin999
- Start date
I agree. Just goes to show how much stuff there is in the water that needs to be removed.
I just backwashed it again a few minutes ago and added in another dose of cellulose. (I've gone through almost the whole bag now)
Well obviously you are filtering out a lot of stuff if you are backwashing that big filter of yours 3 times in 24 hours. It does look more clear, but be patient.
I've been sick a lot this year and never got around to getting the organic stains (leaf stains) off my plaster... I developed some holes in my winter cover and I swear some leaves crawl under my cover to get into my pool, lol. Well, I started this week to really scrubbing to remove the stains and my failing painted/plaster really clouded up my pool this week. I've been hitting it in stages and at the height of my scrubbing caused my pool to look like yours (albeit plaster dust vs algae carcases). It took almost 2 days to clear it enough for me to see enough to starting scrubbing new sections.
Just a long, rambling story to let you know that it takes time to filter a cloudy pool... even with a DE filter. Keep up the good work you are doing and you will get there... you've come so far and you are close to finishing.
I've been sick a lot this year and never got around to getting the organic stains (leaf stains) off my plaster... I developed some holes in my winter cover and I swear some leaves crawl under my cover to get into my pool, lol. Well, I started this week to really scrubbing to remove the stains and my failing painted/plaster really clouded up my pool this week. I've been hitting it in stages and at the height of my scrubbing caused my pool to look like yours (albeit plaster dust vs algae carcases). It took almost 2 days to clear it enough for me to see enough to starting scrubbing new sections.
Just a long, rambling story to let you know that it takes time to filter a cloudy pool... even with a DE filter. Keep up the good work you are doing and you will get there... you've come so far and you are close to finishing.
Day 19
Still very little improvement over yesterday which means there is no chance of being able to swim over the holiday weekend.
Backwashed the filter yesterday night after pressure was up by 50% over the starting point and had to do the same again this morning. That means it has had to be backwashed five times in the last 48 hours which is why I am stunned by the overall lack of improvement to water clarity.
Whatever is in the water there must certainly be a lot of it.
Still very little improvement over yesterday which means there is no chance of being able to swim over the holiday weekend.
Backwashed the filter yesterday night after pressure was up by 50% over the starting point and had to do the same again this morning. That means it has had to be backwashed five times in the last 48 hours which is why I am stunned by the overall lack of improvement to water clarity.
Whatever is in the water there must certainly be a lot of it.
I think the trouble has finally made itself known.
I had to backwash the filter again this evening and the combination of the water clearing just a bit more plus the lack of glare on the surface of the pool allowed me to see what appeared to be some "dark shadows" on the floor of the shallow end of the pool.
I tried the leaf rake which pulled up nothing and then scrubbed the heck out of them with my steel brush. The shadows remained but a faint yellow-brownish cloud was kicked up in the water which leads me to believe that the shadows may be mustard algae stains impregnating the plaster on the very bottom of the pool (where it couldn't be seen before now). And since I have not been keeping the FC levels high enough to thoroughly kill mustard algae it would explain where all of the extra cloudiness has been continually coming from.
So I added another four gallons of 8.25% into the pool to bring the FC level up to 40. And while that is a bit higher than what is called for with a CYA level of 50 I figured that the buffer couldn't hurt especially at the begining of what is essentially a "Mustard Algae" SLAM.
I'll probably check the filter and add one more gallon of bleach tonight before I go to bed and hopefully I will see a reduction in the "stain/shadow" tomorrow morning.
I had to backwash the filter again this evening and the combination of the water clearing just a bit more plus the lack of glare on the surface of the pool allowed me to see what appeared to be some "dark shadows" on the floor of the shallow end of the pool.
I tried the leaf rake which pulled up nothing and then scrubbed the heck out of them with my steel brush. The shadows remained but a faint yellow-brownish cloud was kicked up in the water which leads me to believe that the shadows may be mustard algae stains impregnating the plaster on the very bottom of the pool (where it couldn't be seen before now). And since I have not been keeping the FC levels high enough to thoroughly kill mustard algae it would explain where all of the extra cloudiness has been continually coming from.
So I added another four gallons of 8.25% into the pool to bring the FC level up to 40. And while that is a bit higher than what is called for with a CYA level of 50 I figured that the buffer couldn't hurt especially at the begining of what is essentially a "Mustard Algae" SLAM.
I'll probably check the filter and add one more gallon of bleach tonight before I go to bed and hopefully I will see a reduction in the "stain/shadow" tomorrow morning.
It is VERY important to scrub your whole pool. Algae makes a protective cover that can keep the chlorine from killing it. If you brush it off the chlorine will be able to kill it! Wear old clothes!
I have not gone back over your thread. Do you have a light? Have you taken it out? Have you brush the bottom/underside of your ladder if you have one?
Kim
I have not gone back over your thread. Do you have a light? Have you taken it out? Have you brush the bottom/underside of your ladder if you have one?
Kim
- May 22, 2013
- 2,796
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I Have been brushing the pool daily. Problem is that the chlorine wasn't high enough to kill mustard algae and I couldn't see the patch/stain under the cloudy water to know that it was there.
Have a light, took it out and pressure washed the interior housing, don't have a ladder.
Once the water clears enough to see the bottom everywhere and I can tell if there are any other stain/patches I plan to let the chlorine drop back to 12-15 ppm, climb into the pool with the pressure washer wand and blast that stuff completely out of the plaster, then bring the FC back up over 30.
I wanted to make sure that the FC stayed up above 30 overnight while I was asleep.
The stains are still there this morning but they do seem to be a bit smaller and lighter in color so my guess about their origin seems to be correct.
Bad news.
As the water is slowly clearing I can see that the staining is far, far more extensive on the bottom of the pool than I had originally thought. Here is a (contrast enhanced) picture of the visible part of the shallow end which can be seen.
Raising the chlorine level up above shock levels for mustard algae (40+ FC) has only cleared up the problem slightly and so now I am testing the worst of the spots that I can see by leaving a tri-clor tablet on it to see if the stain lightens up from it or stays the same.
As the water is slowly clearing I can see that the staining is far, far more extensive on the bottom of the pool than I had originally thought. Here is a (contrast enhanced) picture of the visible part of the shallow end which can be seen.
Raising the chlorine level up above shock levels for mustard algae (40+ FC) has only cleared up the problem slightly and so now I am testing the worst of the spots that I can see by leaving a tri-clor tablet on it to see if the stain lightens up from it or stays the same.
Darn! I hope the tab. does some good. No wonder it is taking so long.
At what point does a plaster pool need to be redone? Does it get wore so bad that it is almost impossible to get it clean if something like this happens?
I have a vinyl pool so have NO idea what goes into caring for an older plaster pool.
I can give you a hug to help out though! I bet an adult drink would even better LOL
Kim
At what point does a plaster pool need to be redone? Does it get wore so bad that it is almost impossible to get it clean if something like this happens?
I have a vinyl pool so have NO idea what goes into caring for an older plaster pool.
I can give you a hug to help out though! I bet an adult drink would even better LOL
Kim
this thread is FASCINATING! My own original thread covered a month of SLAMing so I can so appreciate what you are going through. Keep up the terrific documentation, it is really important to relay this info to the people who follow behind you. Your thread is proof that it takes patience to get a fantastic looking pool. So far, I would call your problem textbook as far as why people come to this site. Also, it is the PERFECT example of how TFP works. Please keep us posted!
Well, good news and bad news.
Good news is that the stains do seem to be organic. Bad news is that they are very resistant to chlorine.
I placed the puck onto the stain yesterday and when I checked under it after an hour there was no change in the appearance of the stain. Even scrubbing the spot where the puck had been with the steel brush had zero effect.
So I put it back in place and checked again after two more hours and still saw no obvious improvement so I just decided to leave it there overnight and see what would happen and yes, after 12 hours the stain did clear up directly under where the puck was.
And while it is good to know that this staining ~can~ be cleared up it also seems if it took 12 hours of direct contact with a tri-chlor puck to burn it off then I doubt that any amount of FC in just the water alone will likely be able to make much of a dent in the several square feet of pool floor that have been stained like this.
So aside from spreading dozens and dozens of pucks all over the bottom of the pool, does anyone have any ideas as to how to clear this up?
Good news is that the stains do seem to be organic. Bad news is that they are very resistant to chlorine.
I placed the puck onto the stain yesterday and when I checked under it after an hour there was no change in the appearance of the stain. Even scrubbing the spot where the puck had been with the steel brush had zero effect.
So I put it back in place and checked again after two more hours and still saw no obvious improvement so I just decided to leave it there overnight and see what would happen and yes, after 12 hours the stain did clear up directly under where the puck was.
And while it is good to know that this staining ~can~ be cleared up it also seems if it took 12 hours of direct contact with a tri-chlor puck to burn it off then I doubt that any amount of FC in just the water alone will likely be able to make much of a dent in the several square feet of pool floor that have been stained like this.
So aside from spreading dozens and dozens of pucks all over the bottom of the pool, does anyone have any ideas as to how to clear this up?
No ideas That is a great picture to show what is going on though. What about the acid clean some people talk about? I have no idea what it is or why but........................acid cleans deep? Just throwing it out there to see who can catch it and run with it.
Kim
That is a great picture to show what is going on though. What about the acid clean some people talk about? I have no idea what it is or why but........................acid cleans deep? Just throwing it out there to see who can catch it and run with it.Kim
Well I hope that someone here has a solution because as the water continues to clear and I can see into the deeper section it is becoming obvious that this problem is present all over the bottom of the pool.
From what I can tell from today's puck placement, it looks like it takes 6+ hours contact with the Tri-chlor tablet to be able to burn off most of the stain directly under the puck.
From what I can tell from today's puck placement, it looks like it takes 6+ hours contact with the Tri-chlor tablet to be able to burn off most of the stain directly under the puck.
My suggestion is to first finish the SLAM (brushing lots) and see how the stains look then.
Are you using a combo brush or a SS algae brush?
- - - Updated - - -
btw, how old is the plaster?
Are you using a combo brush or a SS algae brush?
- - - Updated - - -
btw, how old is the plaster?
30 year old pool/plaster. Using a stainless steel algae brush (because nylon wouldn't do anything to help with this). The stains were not present in the pool 12-18 months ago before I let it go to Heck and are only present where large piles of dead leaves were present on the bottom of the pool prior to beginning the SLAM.
I am worried that the SLAM may not ~be~ 100% completable. If the particles that have been clouding it for the past two weeks are being release by the stains (slowly) wouldn't it cause the pool to permanently fail one of the completion criteria until the stains are dealt with?
smforte
0
Is draining and washing an option? Not familiar with plaster. So sorry your having such a problem!!
I agree that you should wait until you finish the SLAM before you worry about the stains.
I have an old plaster pool that is beyond the point of needing to be resurfaced and a pool cover that should have been replaced a long time ago, too. My plaster is stained by leaves when I open each year. The best way to get rid of this type of stain is very rigorous brushing with a stainless steel brush while the FC is at shock level. The stains are not like algae blooms in that they do not use up a lot of chlorine. I find that I work on the stains as time and my arms allow... it can be arm and back breaking work.
The other alternative is to drain and acid wash which is expensive and will remove another layer of your aging, thinning plaster.
I have an old plaster pool that is beyond the point of needing to be resurfaced and a pool cover that should have been replaced a long time ago, too. My plaster is stained by leaves when I open each year. The best way to get rid of this type of stain is very rigorous brushing with a stainless steel brush while the FC is at shock level. The stains are not like algae blooms in that they do not use up a lot of chlorine. I find that I work on the stains as time and my arms allow... it can be arm and back breaking work.
The other alternative is to drain and acid wash which is expensive and will remove another layer of your aging, thinning plaster.
Day 22
As you can see, visibility has improved over the past three days (still cloudy but can now barely see the bottom of the pool to at least the 5 foot mark) however that improved visibility has revealed massive staining to the plaster on the floor of the pool where all of the dead vegetation sat for literally months.
As stated above, Tri-clor pucks ~will~ burn it off but it requires prolonged contact (6+ hours to do so) which is where I am now, having tossed six of them in (as you can see in the pictures both above and below) as a test to see if this will remove the stains thoroughly enough to be considered an "effective" albeit tedious means of treating the problem. I will pull the pucks out tonight around sunset and see just what the results are however as I said above, if anyone has a better idea as to how to treat this please let me know as I am loathe to use the tri-clor pucks and their CYA additions if I can avoid it.
As you can see, visibility has improved over the past three days (still cloudy but can now barely see the bottom of the pool to at least the 5 foot mark) however that improved visibility has revealed massive staining to the plaster on the floor of the pool where all of the dead vegetation sat for literally months.
As stated above, Tri-clor pucks ~will~ burn it off but it requires prolonged contact (6+ hours to do so) which is where I am now, having tossed six of them in (as you can see in the pictures both above and below) as a test to see if this will remove the stains thoroughly enough to be considered an "effective" albeit tedious means of treating the problem. I will pull the pucks out tonight around sunset and see just what the results are however as I said above, if anyone has a better idea as to how to treat this please let me know as I am loathe to use the tri-clor pucks and their CYA additions if I can avoid it.
Water table is way too high here to safely try that.
Unfortunately, I spent 10 minutes scrubbing the H#ll out of a one square foot section of stained plaster on Saturday (the section where the six pucks are now currently sitting) with my stainless brush while keeping the FC at 30% above what was called for in a Mustard Algae SLAM and it literally had zero effect on the stain. I came back out in the morning and it looked exactly the same.
So far the only thing that has affected the stain at all was to brush the plaster for about 20 seconds and then to leave a Tri-Chlor puck on the spot for 6 or more hours. That seems to burn out the stain.
Again, water table in west Houston (especially with all of the rain we have had over the past month) would make attempting that extremely dangerous.
Also, I haven't actually stopped SLAMing the pool, right now I have gone ahead and raised the FC level to well over the recommendations for 50 CYA (FC is currently up at 38+) so if anything I have basically doubled down on the SLAM in the hopes that it would make a dent in both the stains as well as the continuing cloudiness.
I guess that SLAMing it and ignoring the stains is an option, however while I could potentially learn to live with the stains for the rest of the year (current plan is to remodel the pool next February) however I wouldn't want to have gone through 4-6 weeks of SLAMing the pool (basically half of the summer) just to potentially have algae come right back from the stuff left lurking deep in the stains.
Also, if the continued cloudiness in the pool is being caused by particles slowly coming up out of the stains then won't the criteria for finishing the SLAM essentially never be met? Or am I just taking the "Clear water" condition too seriously?
I am asking because I really don't know.
When it is said clear for the overnight test it is talking about so clear you can read the heads/tails of a coin on the bottom of the shallow end. At least that is what it means to me!
Kim
Kim