10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

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chem geek said:
If you are stuck, then there are some last-resort methods in case the particles you are now trying to filter are to fine for the filter to catch.
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Well, overall clarity hasn't improved much for nearly a week now. It ~has~ improved a small amount daily however the difference per day is nearly impossible to see and only by comparing the photos from today vs. a week ago can the actual gains be realized.

Day 8

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vs.

Day 14

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We tried a Cellulose/DE type additive but didn't really see any improvement using that and I was actually told not to bother with any more DE additions to the sand filter until we could at least see the bottom of the pool.
 
Day 15

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Continuing to see some improvements to overall clarity but still cannot see the floor of even the shallow end of the pool. Haven't had to backwash the filter since Friday.

Had to add one bottle of bleach yesterday to maintain a FC level over 22. FC drop overnight was just 1 so it appears that the sun and 90+ degree water seem to be what is eating most of the chlorine.

Total costs to date:

Bleach: $249
City Water: $193

We have a 1.5 hp pump and a 600# sand filter on a 17,000 gallon pool with a commercial level turnover rate (7.2 times per day) so the water is definitely being processed.

At this point the only thing that I can think of is that the majority of particles in the pool must be small enough that they are slipping through the sand filter.
 
Anyone know what exactly is in Sparkle UP? Cellulose? I had the same conditions in a rather small 8k Gal pool and used that stuff to aid my much smaller sand filter. What other alternatives would there be for such small particles?


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You might want to try to add DE to your sand filter. This will help filter out the smaller particles. It must be added after each backwash.

Here is an article detail the process:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/133-add-de-to-a-sand-filter

I haven't read your entire thread, but have you inspected your filter to make sure that the lateral are okay and that you don't have any channeling?

http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/144-maintenance-and-cleaning-of-pool-filters
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/73192-Deep-Cleaning-a-Sand-Filter

Sorry just read your post more thoroughly and saw that you've already tried adding DE. :gone:

For a sand filter, it is important not to backwash too frequently. You should backwash when your pressure rises 25% above your clean pressure. I still recommend you inspect your sand filter to make sure that it is in working order.

Also, make sure that you've checked all places that algae can hide, if you have a light pull it out and check to see the condition of the light niche and give it a good scrub and exposure to high FC.
 
kcindc said:
You might want to try to add DE to your sand filter. This will help filter out the smaller particles. It must be added after each backwash.

Here is an article detail the process:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/133-add-de-to-a-sand-filter

I haven't read your entire thread, but have you inspected your filter to make sure that the lateral are okay and that you don't have any channeling?

http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/144-maintenance-and-cleaning-of-pool-filters
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/73192-Deep-Cleaning-a-Sand-Filter
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Opened up the filter and deep washed it a week or so before I started SLAMing the pool. No signs of damage, channeling or sand coming into the pool from the filter.

Tried the Cellulose DE substitute last week and didn't see any real improvement in filtration, someone here also told me not to bother adding any more until I could at least see the floor of the deep end of the pool. :confused:

I would consider using a clarifier to try to bind up the particles but the idea of dropping the chlorine levels and having the filter off for 24-48 hours really bothers me.

I only backwash the filter after there has been a noticeable increase in pressure (roughly 4# or more over the 12# starting point) . I haven't had any increase since Friday, so I haven't backwashed it since then.
 
The reason for using the DE is to take out smaller particles which can be the cause of you not being able to see the bottom of the deep end. You might want to try some more of it.
 
No real chance in the appearance last night.

Added 6 cups of the DE substitute to the intake this morning and the pressure has gone up a bit over the course of the day (1-2 more PSI now than it was at right after the DE addition) but even after 12 hours it hasn't risen to the point where I would normally backwash it.

I will probably wait another hour and go ahead and backwash it any way though as I am uncomfortable with leaving the DE/cellulose in the filter with the pump running unattended overnight.

I will probably add more cellulose to the system again in the morning when I get up.

The instructions on the package say to add 2 cups per 200# size of the filter in question (which is why I added 6 cups today) but offhand, with as little as the pressure rose all day with that amount in the filter, do you think that I might need to add a just bit more cellulose next time?
 
They recommend that amount for a reason so I'd be hesitant to add extra. I'm thinking it's like laundry soap, more isn't always better.
Rather than exact cups if you happened to dip a cup in the bag and the cup was a bit rounded on top I guess it couldn't hurt :scratch:
 

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Day 17

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Total Costs so far:

Bleach: $253
City Water: $197

Lost about 1 FC again overnight so I am pretty sure at this point I just need to get the particles out of the water and I would be good to go.

Added cellulose/DE substitute both yesterday and today and while the additions do cause filter pressure to rise throughout the day, the improvement to water clarity is still minimal.
 
At this point you need some POP. Pool owner patience. This is frustrating part of the process and sand filters take much longer to clear than other filter types.

It takes time to filter out the fine particles. Do you have a polaris or some other cleaner? Do you have a main drain? When I am clearing cloudy water, I use my polaris to keep the water mixed up and I pull about 75% of the water from the main drain since these particles are more likely to be pulled from the main drain vs the skimmers.

Don't backwash before your pressure rises 25% because a sand filter works better when it is a little dirty. Backwashing too soon will make the filtration process take longer than necessary.
 
I never backwash before the filter pressure rises at least 4psi over the base 12 psi that it starts at after a backwash cycle. (unless I have added DE/cellulose to it in which case I will backwash that out before going to bed at night)

And while I understand the concept of patience I honestly have never seen the filter take this much time to do so little overall filtration. After all, this is a fairly large filter for a 17K pool.

I would suspect channeling as a possible reason for the poor performance but I just opened it up and deep washed it less than a month ago and the sand was fine then. I suppose I can open it back up again tonight after I backwash the latest cellulose addition from the filter and check again though.

I ~had~ a Polaris that was far more trouble than it was worth that I tossed a few years ago. I can open up the main drain bypass in the skimmer but I will have to get either a very short length of pool hose or make a new "U" shaped adapter out of PVC to plug into the openings in the skimmer first.
 
The large filter size doesn't mean it necessarily clean better than a smaller filter, it just means you can filter longer between backwashes.

I'll let someone with more experience will interject me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't backwash the DE out when you go to sleep because of your fear that the pressure will get higher than your backwash pressure. The flow decreases at higher pressures, but it also means that your filter can grab more stuff, at the rate you are going with you very little increase in pressure over time, I don't see any harm in allowing the DE to do its job while you sleep because I don't see your pressure rising too high to cause any damage to your equipment.

I am no expert your type of plumbing. Make sure that you are stirring the water whether it is from brushing and or vacuuming so that the filter can grab the dead algae carcasses.
 
Been brushing down the pool nightly. Filter can probably handle the pressure up to double the starting psi but was warned earlier in this thread not to leave the DE in the filter without monitoring. :confused:

I've even tried just cycling the water in just the spa for a couple of hours last night (bypassing the pool) and even with the insane total turnover rate of 10+ times per hour when I was done the water in the spa showed little improvement which seems to indicate to me that whatever is in the water now is just too tiny for the filter to catch.
 
...And now I wonder if I spoke too soon.

:)


Filter pressure just jumped 12 psi over the past hour (from 14 to 26) so perhaps the addition of the "extra" cellulose made a difference after all.

I just added another six "heaping" cups to it again after this last backwash and will see what happens.
 
Luclin999 said:
Been brushing down the pool nightly. Filter can probably handle the pressure up to double the starting psi but was warned earlier in this thread not to leave the DE in the filter without monitoring. :confused:
.
Click to expand...

Well that advice is because at first it is difficult to know how fast the pressure will rise. For example, I have a DE filter and when clearing my swamp every opening, I have to backwash every 30 minutes at the very beginning with longer intervals as the water clears. Obviously I can't leave mine alone at the beginning because the pressure will get too high if I left alone for 12 hours.

You've already seen what happens to your pressure after adding DE (I think you said pressure rises 1-2 # in 12 hours). This means you could potentially leave the DE in overnight. If worried, you could set you alarm and check it during the night.

- - - Updated - - -

Luclin999 said:
...And now I wonder if I spoke too soon.

:)


Filter pressure just jumped 12 psi over the past hour (from 14 to 26) so perhaps the addition of the "extra" cellulose made a difference after all.

I just added another six "heaping" cups to it again after this last backwash and will see what happens.
Click to expand...

Wonderful news... you can ignore my post from a few minutes ago :)
 

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