Zeolite debris

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sonnaps

sonnaps

Active member
Jun 11, 2022
34
NJ
Pool Size
21000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hello all,

I am having the same issues as others with fine zeolite dust making it past the filter and getting recirculated back into the pool. I searched through the forums already for some insight, but most posts seem to be left unanswered. Several rounds of vacuuming and long backwashing doesn't seem to make too much difference. Each round helps but really not much. I just have a few questions for the experts here.

1. How long would be "too long" to backwash? I don't want to cause more issues by backwashing for too long of a time. Right now, I max out at 3mins and rinse for about 30secs-1min.
2. I read a very old post on another forum that some fine granules might have wedged themselves in the multiport valve handle keeping it somewhat up and allowing debris through.
Sounds like you were having the same problem I had, it wasn't that the zeolite doesn't work it is because it comes in granules that is the problem.
In my case when it was when I pushed down on the valve handle to change from recycle to filter it allowed some of these floating zeolite granules to float up and wedge in the valve holding it open and allowing the silt from the pool to completely bypass the filter and head straight back into the pool.
The filter looks and acts completely normal after this except it doesn't work, you have to take the valve apart and remove the stuck granules and after that all will hopefully be well.
Click to expand...
3. I am going to try a few rounds of vacuuming to waste. I just hate doing it and dumping all my well-balanced water out. Has anyone tried this specifically with this type of zeolite issue and had any success?
4. Anyone ever try the Slime Bag on their return jets? These things are quite pricey and low in stock everywhere. It would be an expensive test for me to buy two of these bags, but it would save me from many rounds (I am assuming) of vacuuming to waste.

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Zeolites are a completely different class of minerals that are microporous materials consisting mainly of aluminosilicates. They are extremely light weight materials will huge surface to volume ratios. They are typically used in advanced filtration process for their abilities to absorb various kinds of organic and inorganic compounds on to their surfaces.
 
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I am a Zeo user. One of the few here. I've done a fair amount of research.

Zeo comes from 4 mines. The size can vary. When you buy it, you don't know what you are getting. The result is zeo that is too small and will fill your pool with it. Zeo often needs a good ten minutes to half an hour of backwashing when it is new to avoid this exact problem. There are situations where even that doesn't take care of it. Occasionally you get a bad batch of zeo, which is softer than usual, and it is constantly getting crushed and thus continues to put dust into the pool until it is replaced.

I'm lucky, when I bought the house and was "pool stored" the guy said this is what to put in...what did I know, he at least knew to backwash, and apparently I got the big particle stuff. Since then, I've helped dozens of pools with Zeo problems.

I would recommend avoiding the zeo. Take the Zeo out, and fill the filter with sand. I don't think there is a huge improvement with the Zeo over sand.
 
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PoolStored said:
I am a Zeo user. One of the few here. I've done a fair amount of research.

Zeo comes from 4 mines. The size can vary. When you buy it, you don't know what you are getting. The result is zeo that is too small and will fill your pool with it. Zeo often needs a good ten minutes to half an hour of backwashing when it is new to avoid this exact problem. There are situations where even that doesn't take care of it. Occasionally you get a bad batch of zeo, which is softer than usual, and it is constantly getting crushed and thus continues to put dust into the pool until it is replaced.

I'm lucky, when I bought the house and was "pool stored" the guy said this is what to put in...what did I know, he at least knew to backwash, and apparently I got the big particle stuff. Since then, I've helped dozens of pools with Zeo problems.

I would recommend avoiding the zeo. Take the Zeo out, and fill the filter with sand. I don't think there is a huge improvement with the Zeo over sand.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the input. Aside from getting rid of it completely, do you think a few rounds of vacuuming to waste might help? Maybe I do have to good stuff and it was never backwashed enough initially (wishful thinking). I just had the entire filter dumped, replaced the laterals, and refilled with the same Zeo. It would be so disheartening to do that all again to just refill with sand.
 
Your choice. You can try it, I can't give you any insight on if it will help. No idea which type of batch you got.

I do know that replacing with sand will give you Trouble Free filtration.
 
I used Zeo early on in my personal challenges with the pool and my too small sand filter. Didn't notice any change in filtering, or anything in the pool (maybe the algae hid it!). But when backwashing, it slowly came out in the wash. After a couple of years, I went back to sand. About 2 years ago, I was again struggling to clear up algae, and asked at my local store about Zeo again (where I had originally got it), and they said they had stopped selling it years ago, due to issues like I had and you described. But, of course, they had another miracle substitute - although they did note that sand is best. But the filter permanently broke, and I switched to a proper sized cartridge - problem solved!
So, your mileage as to how well it stays in the filter may vary. I'd backwash, and see if the smallest/lightest flushes out, and you end up in a happy balance that then works for you.

As far as the Slime Bag - can't speak to that exactly, but on this site someone had done a DIY version using a filter bag purchased from Duda Diesel (filter bag | Duda Diesel Alternative Energy, Chemicals & Industrial Supply Store) and some plumbing parts. Do a search here, for details and the parts he used. I built it. Overall pretty cheap to do, compared. In sum, it did filter well, but without a lot of surface area, plugged up pretty fast, and was a pain to clean. Just lifting the bag out of the pool forced the trapped water through it, along with much of the dirt it had captured. I still have it, and works great if I have to add CYA. Can't say if the Slime Bag has the same deficiencies...but would suspect it does.
 
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As @mknauss pointed out, Zeo needs slow speeds to work as described. I can backwash my Zeo for hours (when i need to drain)and nothing will happen to it. It is true that zeo needs a great deal of backwash on first use to get rid of all the small size zeo. That is was apparently is happening to you. I would vacuum to waste and eventually it will hold its own. That is if water is not too expensive. You can keep trying with the single speed pump and if you have additional water features turn them on so the flow will slow down more. I use around 15GPM flow and works great. That is around 1160Rpms with a VS 3hp pump.
 

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sande005 said:
As far as the Slime Bag - can't speak to that exactly, but on this site someone had done a DIY version using a filter bag purchased from Duda Diesel (filter bag | Duda Diesel Alternative Energy, Chemicals & Industrial Supply Store) and some plumbing parts. Do a search here, for details and the parts he used. I built it. Overall pretty cheap to do, compared. In sum, it did filter well, but without a lot of surface area, plugged up pretty fast, and was a pain to clean.
Click to expand...
Thank you, this seems like just what I need... at least to try at some point after a few other experiments first.

I thought about it a great deal, last night and this morning. I think what I am going to try first is just vacuuming to filter, and then don't backwash right away, at least for a day or two after I vacuum. I want to try to rule out the multiport valve issue. I want to see if all this fine dust/zeo is making its way back into the pool only after I backwash. If I vacuum to filter and most of it stays away (I am assuming I won't do a perfect job vacuuming and might disperse some of it back around while I am vacuuming - it will then settle back down). At least I can see if most of it has gone away.

If I indeed have a multiport valve issue. vacuuming to waste will just kick new stuff back into the pool and the new debris will probably settle back down within an hour or two. That's what happened this past weekend. I vacuumed it all up, the pool looked spotless. I backwashed for 3-4min, rinsed for about a min. After only 1 hr, I could see things started to resettle and in 2 hrs I swear it looked worse then when I started.
 
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Flying Tivo said:
As @mknauss pointed out, Zeo needs slow speeds to work as described. I can backwash my Zeo for hours (when i need to drain)and nothing will happen to it. It is true that zeo needs a great deal of backwash on first use to get rid of all the small size zeo. That is was apparently is happening to you. I would vacuum to waste and eventually it will hold its own. That is if water is not too expensive. You can keep trying with the single speed pump and if you have additional water features turn them on so the flow will slow down more. I use around 15GPM flow and works great. That is around 1160Rpms with a VS 3hp pump.
Click to expand...

I swear I read somewhere that backwashing for too long could cause cavitation or some type of issue with the filter media. So you can backwash for like 10-20min and not worry about screwing up the filter? I just have to worry about the amount of water I am losing?

As for the flow rate, how would I figure out what I am at now? I am assuming I need some type of flow meter attached somewhere? Something like this.
 
sonnaps said:
not worry about screwing up the filter? I just have to worry about the amount of water I am losing?
Click to expand...
Backwashing/Rinse is done at high flow(30GPM) with no problem. I usually Backwash once a year or if rain permits more times. Backwashing and Rinsing is done by watching the sight glass on the filter, when its clean, its clean, no need for more time. When my pool is about to overflow due to rains i can do about 3 cycles of Backwash/rinse with no problems(that is my OCD talking).
sonnaps said:
and then don't backwash right away, at least for a day or two after I vacuum.
Click to expand...
Like i said, wait about 30 days minimum and then backwash, no hurry. A dirty filter, filters more than a clean filter.
 
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