Wiring a 240v Spa blower.

Jump to latest Follow Reply
S

sterfry1988

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
54
Austin, TX
I purchased a 240v spa blower and am now going to wire it.
Picture of the subpanel

There are two spots in the middle which have my VS pump and my pool heater below that. Each 20 amp connected to a separate 120v pole.

My booster pump uses two separate 20 amp single breakers with one on each pole as well. I was told by a guy at home depot that I would want an attached breaker(like this) for my spa blower.

So I am realizing now that my pool panel only has 2 240v single spots. I could do two separate breakers on each pole, try to rewire the spa blower as a 120v unit?

Buy a new panel?

What would y'all recommend?
 
If we could see the inside of the box it would make more sense. To me, it looks like the single breaker lower left could get moved to upper left. Then the double breaker for the heater gets moved to the right or left, thus freeing up a double space. But again, I'd have to see inside to be sure it would work.
 
I can't see what I was hoping to see.

New Siemens boxes alternate poles, so any two adjacent spaces will give you 240V. If yours is right and left, then you won't be able to use a double breaker. I'm not sure if you could use two singles on opposite ends or if that wouldn't be up to code. Hopefully someone who knows will have an answer.
 
In theory, you should be able to move the top breaker over one spot to free up a place for a double pole breaker next to it. Is there a label on the box that shows the sequence of terminals in that box just to be sure.

A quick scan of the manual for this showed a 120 and 240 connection but, did not show what needs to be changed to do so. It may be that you need to buy these specific to your power requirements.

Dan
 
danpik said:
In theory, you should be able to move the top breaker over one spot to free up a place for a double pole breaker next to it. Is there a label on the box that shows the sequence of terminals in that box just to be sure.

Dan
Click to expand...

Looking at the picture here there are two black wires one on the right/left. Do I need my breaker to be connected to each pole/wire? The heater/VS pump breakers have one breaker connected to each side. The Booster pump has a 2 single breakers on each side.

Does my question make sense?

Can 240v appliances be wired on a single pole. Maybe that's a better question?
 
Richard320 said:
I can't see what I was hoping to see.

New Siemens boxes alternate poles, so any two adjacent spaces will give you 240V. If yours is right and left, then you won't be able to use a double breaker. I'm not sure if you could use two singles on opposite ends or if that wouldn't be up to code. Hopefully someone who knows will have an answer.
Click to expand...
It is not code and dangerous to use two single breakers. If one trips, the other liekly won't, so the device won't work and someone may assume there's no power but it still is live with 120 volts. Also someone could miss the fact it has two breakers and shut one off and then electrocute themselves cause they didn't shut off all power.

The one and only purpose of a 240 volt double breaker is to ensure if either leg trips the other leg is disconnected at the same time. (Also if you turn it off it shuts off both legs)
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
So at this point the previous technician already wired the booster without using a double breaker. I am assuming a double breaker must attach to each pole? If that is the case I need to upgrade my panel for one with more space?
 
You do not need a new panel. You have three empty spaces in your existing panel. If you move the top left breaker all the way over to the other end then you have a space for a two pole 240. I circled the breaker with blue and drew an arrow over to help explain.
3b80ef1e267ce5ab61439b441deea4e4.jpg
 
You do not need a new panel. You have three empty spaces in your existing panel. If you move the top left breaker all the way over to the other end then you have a space for a two pole 240. I circled the breaker with blue and drew an arrow over to help explain.
22fa81a0cfbacb96d96bb29fce60cee2.jpg
 
Knjakeman said:
You do not need a new panel. You have three empty spaces in your existing panel. If you move the top left breaker all the way over to the other end then you have a space for a two pole 240. I circled the breaker with blue and drew an arrow over to help explain.
Click to expand...


OK, just so I understand, i'm new to electricity. I do not have to have the breakers attached to both poles?

e.g:

pool-example-wiring.jpg


Here you can see all the 240v devices have a breaker on each black wire from the main breaker. I was not sure if that was intentional. or if having two breakers connected to the same wire would be sufficient.
 
Actually I see a couple things. To make everything code and correct you actually need 3 double pole breakers installed.The pool pump is using 2 single pole 20 amp breakers tied together with a “handle tie”. I’ve seen that done a few times in my years of electrical work but personally I would change them to a breaker just like the one you need for the blower “2 pole ,20amp”. And after you have freed up the slot on the left side , install the 2 pole 20 amp for the blower there like I showed in the edit of your picture. The third breaker would replace the two single pole breakers that would now be in the last two slots on the right. I hope this helps.
 
I’m soooo sorry I just realized that you cannot move that one on the end as it is actually a ( piggy back) breaker. All you need to do is move those two piggy backs over to the right then you would have an open slot for one just like the one on the bottom.
118200b772cf9667a70cf62537ee9030.jpg
 
To clarify the terminology here a bit... In the picture above, the first breaker on the bottom row, left side is a 15 amp GFCI single pole breaker. The breaker next to it is a double pole, double throw, handle tied 20 amp breaker used to supply 240 volts in this situation. It derives the 240 volts (2 x 120) by using both lines from the utility co. With the handle tie, if one leg trips both will shut off.

The breaker(s) in the top row is either two 20 amp twins which would be two separate breakers or it is what is sometimes known as a quad breaker. These quads usually have both the center handles tied as this one is and the two outer handles tied as well. If this is a quad it was put in to save some space in the panel. If it is two twins, I would suggest that you look into using a proper breaker here. I suspect the two outer handles are feeding something requiring 240 volts as well. The problem here may be that if one leg trips the other won't.

If that box is as I think it is, you have room for 8 single pole breakers or 4 double pole breakers or a combination of both on 8 slots.

To answer a question you had earlier...Yes, you need two adjacent slots to get 240 volts. As has been mentioned, you need to move the top set of breakers over one slot to free up two slots for the double pole breaker you need to use.

The picture of the labels for the breakers indicate something called "Sweep" that is on the two outer breakers on that quad. Is that a 240 volt pump of some sort?

Dan
 
Yes it's a 240v booster pump. My confusion was that there seems to be a clear separation of each utility line on the right and left side and I did not know if I needed to have each breaker attached to each side which would leave me with only two slots, one on the top and bottom. If you're saying it just needs to have two connections on the breaker then the double utility line connection does not matter than this makes sense.
 
The double pole breaker will be connected to both hot legs in the panel. Via the buss bar behind the breaker. It is impossible to install a double pole breaker , like the one on the bottom and it not be connected to both hot legs.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply