Why do you never recommend Cal-Hypo?
- Thread starter seilsel
- Start date
Yeah OK Linen 
We do use the phrase trouble free pool a good bit on this forum. To me BBB/TFP is not just about those three chemicals. It's about understanding your pool chemistry and having the right tools and knowing how to use them. The first and foremost is a good yes kit with FAS-DPD. Then you need to understand the results and what actions need to be taken and finally what options you have for effecting the desired results. As this thread pointedly shows you don't always have to use just one method for chlorinating say if youre also trying to solve another problem at the same time. That can a jalopy be more trouble free to onl have to add one chemical like cal-hypo if you need to raise CL and CH.
We do use the phrase trouble free pool a good bit on this forum. To me BBB/TFP is not just about those three chemicals. It's about understanding your pool chemistry and having the right tools and knowing how to use them. The first and foremost is a good yes kit with FAS-DPD. Then you need to understand the results and what actions need to be taken and finally what options you have for effecting the desired results. As this thread pointedly shows you don't always have to use just one method for chlorinating say if youre also trying to solve another problem at the same time. That can a jalopy be more trouble free to onl have to add one chemical like cal-hypo if you need to raise CL and CH.This has been a very interesting thread. I understand the original post is over a year old, but it raised several questions I did not see addressed.
seilsel speaks as if he does not "constantly measure" if he's using cal-hypo. If the bag says "treats 10,000 gals" he throws in the right amount for his pool, then walks away.
He also stated that after giving up on 6 other pools, shocking to 30 ppm one time cleared the pool up.
Neither of these stories mention the CYA level or the CH level.
And as far as I can tell, the only method used to determine if the job is complete, is the eyeball test.
But we all know there has to be more than that right?
Assuming this is true & seilsel does not have to "follow" up on these pools... how can we explain this phenomenon?
Perhaps he is overchlorinating, to 30ppm when he only needs 12ppm? So he is actually above shock level for hours. Then the pool is using a SWG that is set at max, constantly maintaining FC above 12ppm for an extended period of time?
But, even if that were the case, why wouldn't he get the same results with a 30ppm dose from liquid bleach?
I did think about using Cal-Hypo to boost my chlorine level quickly then follow with constant monitoring and adding liquid chlorine to maintain shock level.seilsel said:
seilsel speaks as if he does not "constantly measure" if he's using cal-hypo. If the bag says "treats 10,000 gals" he throws in the right amount for his pool, then walks away.
He also stated that after giving up on 6 other pools, shocking to 30 ppm one time cleared the pool up.
Neither of these stories mention the CYA level or the CH level.
And as far as I can tell, the only method used to determine if the job is complete, is the eyeball test.
But we all know there has to be more than that right?
seilsel said:
Assuming this is true & seilsel does not have to "follow" up on these pools... how can we explain this phenomenon?
Perhaps he is overchlorinating, to 30ppm when he only needs 12ppm? So he is actually above shock level for hours. Then the pool is using a SWG that is set at max, constantly maintaining FC above 12ppm for an extended period of time?
But, even if that were the case, why wouldn't he get the same results with a 30ppm dose from liquid bleach?
Bleach, if it hasn't gone bad, will have exactly the same effect as cal hypo as far as algae is concerned. Of course cal hypo adds calcium, which sometimes doesn't matter and sometimes can be a real problem.
My reading of what seilsel said is that he was comparing cal-hypo used one time in massive doses to bleach added hourly to shock level following the directions we give in Pool School. I don't believe he was directly comparing bleach to cal hypo. Or to the extent that he was comparing bleach and cal hypo he was complaining about the issues of knowing what the strength of the bleach really was (which really isn't an issue if you use it regularly, but can greatly confuse things when you by bleach once at a store you don't have experience with).
Raising the FC level really high all at once is fairly popular with service techs who want to get everything done in one visit. We don't recommend it because it can bleach out the color and shorten the life of vinyl liners, but it isn't to bad for plaster/pebble pools. It is also an inefficient use of chlorine. You might not need the entire massive dose, or you might need multiple doses (and then the longer waiting timer between doses allows the algae to start growing back). But the inefficiency in dose amount is fairly minor, and doesn't compare to the cost of having a service tech driving out to your house every hour (which seems to be the point of view he is approaching it with).
As has already been mentioned several times earlier in this topic, there is nothing wrong with using cal hypo as long as you are aware of the amount of calcium you are adding and that calcium isn't going to cause scaling risks in your pool. Many people can't be bothered to keep track of two numbers at the same time, i.e. the amount of chlorine and the amount of calcium, and even if you don't mind doing so, it is much easier to make mistakes when two different things are going on at the same time. Still, as long as you are up for keeping track of both FC and calcium levels, and raising CH isn't going to be an issue, cal hypo is fine.
My reading of what seilsel said is that he was comparing cal-hypo used one time in massive doses to bleach added hourly to shock level following the directions we give in Pool School. I don't believe he was directly comparing bleach to cal hypo. Or to the extent that he was comparing bleach and cal hypo he was complaining about the issues of knowing what the strength of the bleach really was (which really isn't an issue if you use it regularly, but can greatly confuse things when you by bleach once at a store you don't have experience with).
Raising the FC level really high all at once is fairly popular with service techs who want to get everything done in one visit. We don't recommend it because it can bleach out the color and shorten the life of vinyl liners, but it isn't to bad for plaster/pebble pools. It is also an inefficient use of chlorine. You might not need the entire massive dose, or you might need multiple doses (and then the longer waiting timer between doses allows the algae to start growing back). But the inefficiency in dose amount is fairly minor, and doesn't compare to the cost of having a service tech driving out to your house every hour (which seems to be the point of view he is approaching it with).
As has already been mentioned several times earlier in this topic, there is nothing wrong with using cal hypo as long as you are aware of the amount of calcium you are adding and that calcium isn't going to cause scaling risks in your pool. Many people can't be bothered to keep track of two numbers at the same time, i.e. the amount of chlorine and the amount of calcium, and even if you don't mind doing so, it is much easier to make mistakes when two different things are going on at the same time. Still, as long as you are up for keeping track of both FC and calcium levels, and raising CH isn't going to be an issue, cal hypo is fine.
What about PPG's Acu-tabs? Any recommendation on them?
http://www.ppg.com/chemicals/accutab/pages/default.aspx
http://www.puraquaproducts.com/accu-tab ... ochure.pdf
http://www.ppg.com/chemicals/accutab/pages/default.aspx
http://www.puraquaproducts.com/accu-tab ... ochure.pdf
No different recommendation for them than for any other cal-hypo source. They will add calcium to your water, and it is an additive which does not go away except by water replacement or reverse-osmosis treatment. High calcium levels can be quite problematic.
This bears repeating: All sources of chlorine add something additional to the water. Trichlor and Dichlor add CYA. Cal-Hypo adds calcium. Sodium Hypochlorite adds some salts, but not at an appreciable level. Of the bunch, sodium hypochlorite has the least side effect of all, and is virtually ph-neutral.
You can use all sorts of things to maintain a pool, but you need to KNOW what you are adding, and the effects of those additions, in order to truly manage your water.
This bears repeating: All sources of chlorine add something additional to the water. Trichlor and Dichlor add CYA. Cal-Hypo adds calcium. Sodium Hypochlorite adds some salts, but not at an appreciable level. Of the bunch, sodium hypochlorite has the least side effect of all, and is virtually ph-neutral.
You can use all sorts of things to maintain a pool, but you need to KNOW what you are adding, and the effects of those additions, in order to truly manage your water.
Yes lithium hypo would be a good choice other than it costs something like 10 times as much per amount of chlorine it addsfindog42000 said:
Lithium Hypochlorite also adds salt, but not nearly so much as it lightens the wallet.
This thread is a very good read. 
I just got back from Costco, 3-182 oz bottles of 6% Clorox is $9.49. Is this a good price or should I look for better?
Second comment on Cal-Hypo, current prices at the big pool store for 73% 100lb tub is $299.99. I don't quite have a handle on how to figure which is cheaper. So far it's easier to dump Clorox directly in to the pool than to mix Cal -Hypo with water and make sure the granules are dissolved before adding to the pool.
2-things BBB gives you is
1. shock is a verb. how much money was thrown into the pool following the store's recommendation, add 10 lbs of "shock" then a bottle of algaecide. Oh that didn't work, lets do it again and again, now you have to add this and that.
2. Pool store recommendations call for using too much chlorine and to "shock" (noun) every week. Use the pucks, they wont tell you that higher CYA levels requires more chlorine to get the same results.
Can't wait for my TF100 to arrive, should have opted for the 2-day delivery
I just got back from Costco, 3-182 oz bottles of 6% Clorox is $9.49. Is this a good price or should I look for better?
Second comment on Cal-Hypo, current prices at the big pool store for 73% 100lb tub is $299.99. I don't quite have a handle on how to figure which is cheaper. So far it's easier to dump Clorox directly in to the pool than to mix Cal -Hypo with water and make sure the granules are dissolved before adding to the pool.
2-things BBB gives you is
1. shock is a verb. how much money was thrown into the pool following the store's recommendation, add 10 lbs of "shock" then a bottle of algaecide. Oh that didn't work, lets do it again and again, now you have to add this and that.
2. Pool store recommendations call for using too much chlorine and to "shock" (noun) every week. Use the pucks, they wont tell you that higher CYA levels requires more chlorine to get the same results.
Can't wait for my TF100 to arrive, should have opted for the 2-day delivery
Okay, but not a great price at $0.28/ounce (thats ounce of sodium hypochlorite not bleach). I get my Liquid Chlorine typically for about $0.15/ounce. Take a look at this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/bleach-prices-2012-t41710.htmlreeltor said: