Which Cleaner to Use - Very Cold Water

[geekgranny]

Pool open for winter but not covered.

Now that I have three cleaners to choose from for winter use I'd like some input from those who have experience comparing cleaner operation in cold water, i.e., upper 30's to 40s F. The last three winters I let the pool become a swamp (partially closed and leaf net, only, first swamp winter, so didn't use any cleaners after the water became very cold. This year I'm going to keep the pool totally open, and pretty, so do need one cleaner running. The Vero 300 (like Aquabot Turbo T-Jet) hasn't been used in cold water, just cool, although I've had it three years. The Tracker 4X (vacuum side) is new this summer so haven't used it in very cold water. I've had Polaris 280 for many years and it does get sluggish and is hampered a bit by cold, hardened hoses but I've used them for years in cold water. I'm trying to remember..... it seems that at one point, starting in Jan, Polaris loses most of it's use because of hardened hoses but can't really remember. (After my fifth concussion some of my memory capabilities were disrupted. We don't think it is "old timers" yet. I'm like a beat up old warrior from my lifelong activities with horses, mules, and giant dogs, and other out door activities. Interestingly, the fifth, worst, and last one was the only one not activity related; not too awfully bad whiplash from a not too severe rear-end hit from a truck while I was driving my big truck - seat belt on and head rest too )

Which one will be less affected by very cold water? I'm not asking for guesses; experience preferred. And maybe this discussion might be helpful for others in the market for cleaners.

We've had some freezing nights already and I've been using the Polaris which is doing okay in 50 F water. I have the Tracker (least effective for leaves but best for fine sand and silt) inside with hoses taken apart but no trouble to reassemble. Vero (medium for leaves - medium for sand/silt) is drained and sitting outside for now but no trouble to throw back in.

I will still be having lots of blowing leaves until the end of Dec so, for now, the Polaris, that does the best with leaves is my choice. Will have blowing sand and silt all winter.

Thanks, gg=alice

 

[polyvue]

Which one will be less affected by very cold water? I'm not asking for guesses; experience preferred.

Why don't you make this experiment your own and publish the results? Probably not too many people here have this combination of cleaners so as to be able to offer experiential advice based on a comparative analysis. (I can offer experience on one of these, but that would not be useful in a comparison unless I've used all three in the same pool and at similar temperatures.) And, in the event you are able to indentify your cleaner doppelgänger, you may have more to discuss than the efficacy of winter-time pool cleaning!

 

[Guest]

And, in the event you are able to indentify your cleaner doppelgänger, you may have more to discuss than the efficacy of winter-time pool cleaning!

Can somebody please break that down in English?! My head hurts just reading it :lol:

 

[anonapersona]

I don't know about the other two, but the hose stiffnexx of the Polaris seems to be a big deal.

 

[geekgranny]

Hey Thanks, Excellent idea.

My only glitch right now is that I still haven't gotten the 36 sq ft filter replaced. Cross fingers xxxxxxx I'm hoping to do it this coming weekend. Psi is has been rising about 10 per 24 hours, now, so I have to do backwashing almost daily. Dogs are not swimming now so that is helping some. (Couple of months ago I did take filter out from under deck and did the rinse grids, soak + soak, rinse well, replace those that were "crisp".)But I think the main problem is that several of the nubs on the manifold, that hold the last, outside grids in place were cracking, so I think they have given way, so that the outer grids are probably pushing out against the sides of filter doing strange things to proper function of grids. I have to do three drainings of filter in between backwashes, when I backwash (4-5 times per session) 30-60 seconds each, in order to keep the psi from rising too fast. So I've avoided using the Tracker very much as it throws in so much fine sand/silt, raising psi even faster. And I have so many leaves, I'm almost forced to use Polaris only right now. BTW... the last backwashing MAJOR backwashing was a few days ago and it is still hovering around 20 psi (starting psi with two of the returns reduced so that PoolSkims have enough water pressure is normally 19 or 20 psi, but after this last MAJOR backwashing, with drainings, it started at 18 psi.)

AND I will do the tests as soon as I get the new filter in. Water should be colder then too. Water temps hovering in high 40's today. We're not having any freezing for next few days/nights (may not have any more for several days or weeks, or it could drop to teens next week..... gotta love Texas weather) but Polaris is a bit sluggish but still picking up the leaves, as required. I've taken the skimmer sock off for now as it clogs up really fast from fine silt causing less suction in skimmer and and more suction in bottom drain so that more leaves are heading towards bottom drain, which I do not want as pump basket fills up too fast. Luckily not many floating leaves are making it beyond the two PoolSkims. Have I mentioned lately how much I love the PoolSkims. :-D

Water is gorgeous! I am going through 1 ppm or a little more chlorine per 24 hours, but there are gobs of leave in the PoolSkims and Polaris bags, and on bottom that have to stay in pool for several hours between emptying of bags.

BTW.... everyone..... We got down to 28 F for a few hours, a few nights ago. I didn't have pump running. Everything okay. I usually don't get obsessive about it unless temps are going to be below 32, but not too low in 20's, for a more than 24 hours.

The concrete birdbath was frozen about 1/8" but none of the Stainless Steel water buckets had any ice on them. [EDIT] I do put boiling water in bb several time a day when this happens to open up a drinking hold. I can't find my bb water heater. During most winters the buckets will freeze solidly, 3-4 gallons, every once in a while. If I don't rescue them, the smaller ones, 2 gallon, will deform on the bottom, bowing out, so they no longer sit flat. [end edit]

gg=alice

 

[geekgranny]

And, in the event you are able to identify your cleaner doppelgänger, you may have more to discuss than the efficacy of winter-time pool cleaning!

I have written pretty extensively all around TFP about the three cleaners capabilities compared, in warm water. Maybe it's time to compile some of the :blah:

I do know, now, that with water temps between 60-90 F the Polaris 280 does the best job on leaves with the least amount of intervention from me. The other factor for fine sand/silt combined with leaves the Polaris 280 averages better all round, with less user intervention, using the after market bag by Aquawerx that holds more leaves than the Polaris Leaf bag yet is almost as fine mesh as the Polaris Sand/silt bag. Only one bag actually catches the finest silt, the Aquabot flannel lined bag, but in my circumstances, I have so much silt, in warm weather, it clogs so fast the 'bot only moves around for about an hour. This summer I weighed moist sand and silt from vacuuming with the Pool Blaster (Buster), a hosiery in Polaris bag (haven't been able to use the heavy tight in Polaris as I can't get the snap buttons to latch, so much of it goes through the support hose, and skimmer sock, and what I can measure from Vero bag, over a 24 hour period, at about 2 lbs.

gg=alice

 

[geekgranny]

I don't know about the other two, but the hose stiffnexx of the Polaris seems to be a big deal.

Yeah, they do get really, really stiff. A couple of weeks ago I was having trouble getting attachment fitting, for Polaris, that twist into the wall fitting, twisted off. I replaced, with new, on hand, hose attachment and wall fitting. Now, with water so cold, when I go to remove hose fitting, the whole thing won't budge so I have to unscrew the wall fitting. This is a hassle as I have to remove the Polaris from system when I add filter media, at least a couple of times a week. This never happens in warm water. I've had Polaris 280s since they came out.

It seems to me that someone on the board, who has used at least two different cleaners, made a statement something like he/she wanted to use a suction side cleaner in winter. My Tracker did seem to get a little slower last time I used it in cool water (not cold) but it may have been because my filter psi was reaching critical level. Over the years I've generally left my Polaris in the pool but I can't remember if I used it much when the water was really, really cold. The main difference this year is that I'm determined to have sparkly water all winter, for the very first time in 23 years.

The main thing I'm concerned about with the Tracker is the leaf canister floats near surface. If I leave it in pool without pump running I'm afraid it will freeze crack even if temps are not low enough, for long enough to freeze the pump station pipes. I lost two or three commercial Nature 2 vessels to freezing even with water running through them. That, of course, was before, BBB. :-D

gg=alice

 

[geekgranny]

Just wondering ...... anyone know of a very small, electric or gas heater, built for high pressure use, pool, that I could hook in-line, to heat just the water going to Polaris return? It is a decicated return. I'm thinking, if there is something that could raise the water temp of Polaris water, just a bit, it would certainly help the Polaris to function much better in cold water, when the hoses get so stiff. I'd turn it on manually just when the Polaris is cleaning, a couple of hours a day. Probably heating water up about 30 F max would be all that would be needed. On in to winter the pool water will get in the 30's. It is hovering at 40 right now. Raising the water in hose to 60 or so would make a huge difference.

gg=alice

 

[taekwondodo]

Boy - I was about to ask (in a new thread) about the Polaris hose and stiffness when it gets cold. Water here's in the 45-50o range and this one pool I have the hose is all in a coil and it's not cleaning the pool (although the step it hangs out at is really clean).

Looks like this is a common problem with no solution...

- Jeff

 

[Beez]

Boy - I was about to ask (in a new thread) about the Polaris hose and stiffness when it gets cold. Water here's in the 45-50o range and this one pool I have the hose is all in a coil and it's not cleaning the pool (although the step it hangs out at is really clean).

Looks like this is a common problem with no solution...

My guess is that it has to do with the age of the hose. I ran my Polaris this morning in 44 degree water and it worked fine as usual. But the hose is only a little over a year old...

 

[polyvue]

Boy - I was about to ask (in a new thread) about the Polaris hose and stiffness when it gets cold. Water here's in the 45-50o range and this one pool I have the hose is all in a coil and it's not cleaning the pool (although the step it hangs out at is really clean).

Looks like this is a common problem with no solution...

- Jeff

Thought for sure after I deep-sixed the freeze protection on my pool a few nights ago that I'd see ice sheets on the pool surface and glaciated pumps at the pad, but it turned out OK... pool water got as low as 44° F. and the internal [salt] cell temp. fell to 37° F., as determined by the diagnoistics display on my Aqua Logic PS-8 controller.

The Polaris 280 hose was fit to be tied -- and was, until I untied it. Those 360° plastic rings prefer warmer waters. But I think that an in-line heater would be a very expensive solution to a temporary seasonal problem. I bet you could buy a pallet of Polaris hoses for the cost of a month's worth of heating the water 30 degrees. That heat has to get all the way to the pool through cold pipes and then warm a hose that is bathed constantly in very cold pool water to the point where it becomes more malleable. Just doubt this would work very well. Someday, when I'm a multi-gazzilionnaire I'll turn on my immersion heater willy-nilly, warm the pool to chem geek's preferred 88 degrees and swim to my heart's delight (all the while contributing to my neighborhood's precipitation and global warming!)

 

[geekgranny]

Boy - I was about to ask (in a new thread) about the Polaris hose and stiffness when it gets cold. Water here's in the 45-50o range and this one pool I have the hose is all in a coil and it's not cleaning the pool (although the step it hangs out at is really clean).

Looks like this is a common problem with no solution...

- Jeff

Thought for sure after I deep-sixed the freeze protection on my pool a few nights ago that I'd see ice sheets on the pool surface and glaciated pumps at the pad, but it turned out OK... pool water got as low as 44° F. and the internal [salt] cell temp. fell to 37° F., as determined by the diagnoistics display on my Aqua Logic PS-8 controller.

The Polaris 280 hose was fit to be tied -- and was, until I untied it. Those 360° plastic rings prefer warmer waters. But I think that an in-line heater would be a very expensive solution to a temporary seasonal problem. I bet you could buy a pallet of Polaris hoses for the cost of a month's worth of heating the water 30 degrees. That heat has to get all the way to the pool through cold pipes and then warm a hose that is bathed constantly in very cold pool water to the point where it becomes more malleable. Just doubt this would work very well. Someday, when I'm a multi-gazzilionnaire I'll turn on my immersion heater willy-nilly, warm the pool to chem geek's preferred 88 degrees and swim to my heart's delight (all the while contributing to my neighborhood's precipitation and global warming!)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[geekgranny]

Boy - I was about to ask (in a new thread) about the Polaris hose and stiffness when it gets cold. Water here's in the 45-50o range and this one pool I have the hose is all in a coil and it's not cleaning the pool (although the step it hangs out at is really clean).

Looks like this is a common problem with no solution...

My guess is that it has to do with the age of the hose. I ran my Polaris this morning in 44 degree water and it worked fine as usual. But the hose is only a little over a year old...

I think parts of my hose are about 3-5 yrs old. Not for sure about all of it because I usually replace sections when needed. I think the last section I replaced, about three years ago, was the section at wall fitting. It's not doing as badly as it has in the past. But perhaps I'm remembering when the water was down closer to freezing. I've also replaced swivels as needed, so over a course of 3 years I'll have some new, some 1 yr, some 2yr, etc. Running in the summer it usually has one circle in it about 18" diameter that straightens out every few passes around the pool. Right now it is keeping that circle but otherwise straightening out pretty well when it is on. [EDIT] It ran for about 5 hours tonight with no circle in the hose at all.[end edit] When both pumps off it forms pretty tight 18-24" coil near the wall attachment. It did lose its tail though, which it almost never does because I put a tiny plastic tie on it and pull really tight. Going out to fish it out of deep end (of course ) right now and also put a new homemade tail scrubber on. We aren't going to have any freezes for next few days and 67 F in a few days. It's probably Sunday when I'll have to be inside most of the day watching our "Boys" and "The Geezer".

Oh yes, another thing that it is doing..... I'm using the Aquawer aftermarket bag, my favorite, that holds more leaves than the Polaris leaf bag, and is almost as fine as the Polaris sand/silt bag. My Polaris is like a jet compared to many I see. (Didn't run it last night as not freezing) But the night before when the bag was about half filled with leaves it was hiking up in the back. I don't think adjusting the directional jet will help as it is already in one o'clock position. It didn't do this when the water was warmer. Last time I used the Polaris in winter was 2006-2007. Next two winters pool was partially closed so had a swamp in 2009, but it cleaned up well, and a frog pond in 2008 after being partially drained from fall 2007 because of leak in light niche. It stayed a frog pond all summer 2008 until all the tadpoles matured and little froggies left the pool. I've got some great pics of our mess. :lol: After that was when our Copperhead explosion occurred. And I had to absolutely do a major Acid Wash (in 100+ F temps :? ).

I digress.

[EDIT] Tonight while running it didn't rare up at the rear but bag isn't all the way full. BIG DUH.... a fix for the rear up would be to move the floater thing. [end edit]

gg=alice

 

[geekgranny]

Someday, when I'm a multi-gazzilionnaire I'll turn on my immersion heater willy-nilly, warm the pool to chem geek's preferred 88 degrees and swim to my heart's delight (all the while contributing to my neighborhood's precipitation and global warming!)

When I'm a gazillionaire, I'm going to have the two holly trees, by pool, moved by a professional who will guarantee their survival and replace them if they don't survive (We love our old holly trees), and build a fabulous glass enclosure (triple or quadruple pane/gas filled) around the pool after I have the pool lengthened at shallow end for lap swimming and all new pool decking and landscaping. The glass enclosure will go up to the second story deck and enclose it too. Then I'm going to put a HUGE very tall wind generator on my front forty (.77 acre :lol: ) and bunches of POV panels. Then I'm going to build a separate garage with housing on second story for our full time maid (maid, of course will have to complete chef training) and full time gardener (who will, first thing, learn all about BBB). And then restock the house with more Mastiffs. After that we'll think about replacing our old cars.

gg=alice

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

The Mega-Milliions Lottery Jackpot is now 118 Million dollars.

Scott
PoolGuyNJ

 

[fofa]

I have "The Pool Cleaner" 4 wheeler suction. Right now my pool is the coldest I have ever seen it @ 46F.
The cleaner works as good as ever, but the cold hoses have a tendency to twist and limit it's range. They don't seem to untwist as readily as in warm water. So I am almost daily going out and untwisting the hoses.
So far even here in Texas, laying them out in the sun to straighten them has not been an option due to the cold weather.

 

[geekgranny]

Right before the Big FREEZE resulting in at least 1" ice on pool, I was running the Polaris a lot because of so many leaves still blowing into pool. The hose was doing great with no tangles even with some of the swivel unions being a few years old. After the freeze I ran the robotic Verro 300 under the ice as I had partially closed the pool. Sure was nice to have that option. I can't run the vac side Tracker 4X right now that I partially closed the pool; equipment, at pad, drained, old filter taken out.

The past few days water temps have been rising towards 40 F. I'll be ordering multi valve, flex hose and slip fittings to install new filter in next week, barring more Big Freezes. We do have a cold front coming through next day or so.... our day time temps will be dropping down into low 60s. Who knows about next week. But crossing fingers for continued temps for gluing pipes/fittings. (Using flex pipe because filter or whole pad will be moved in next year.)

So hopefully I'll be able to test the vac side Tracker 4X in some cold water before Spring hits in March.

I really screwed up the Verro 300 yesterday. I wanted to check the impeller for debris/strings/hair, etc. because it seems that it has slowed down some just recently. The online manual directions, for disassembling, seem to not apply to the very first version I have. I took the darn thing totally apart, including losing all the oil in the oil filled/sealed pump motor. It is going to take me more time than I have right now putting it back together. There was a lot of oil in the motor housing. I'd say nearly 3/4 cup. I was working really close to edge of pool (it was supposed to be a quick two step process - it took me over 30 minutes, rushing it, to disassemble with lots of cussing) and yes there's lots of oil in the pool now. Not sure how it got in there though; maybe from rinsing my hands before I realized it was oil. Sure looks like a lot but can't be too much. The SolarBreeze, with paper towel between screens, cleaned it up.

After a little more Internet browsing I finally realized that my incline from deep end is just way too much for it to handle, especially with the the increased sand/silt I have from the new-this-year swimming puppies and it (sand/silt) building up pretty heavily due to no cleaning/pumping, with lots of wind, for a few weeks.

BTW... It is a great cleaner but my conditions are just too extreme. Nothing is wrong with it. Everything internal looks great, pristine impeller, external a bit scraped up, floating cord great, controller great. I'm thinking about selling it, and I'm not going to put it together first. I'll take offers.

gg=alice

 

[crabboy]

Not sure I can add much here as you're most experienced with the 280, but although my 280s hose is very stiff it has been kept the pool as clean as always. Last week it ran beneath the 1" ice sheet just fine.