What am I doing wrong?

[Doug4523]

We bought a house with a pool, and I try to DIY most things in my life so figured I would attempt pool maintenance as well. I'm getting a little discouraged so far. I've done some reading on here and ordered a taylor K-2006c test kit that just arrived. I went out to do some initial testing. The first thing I tried testing for was CYA, and if I did it correctly I got a reading of 100. Can that be right? My water sample was already fairly cloudy. That has to be accounted for already right?

Before I found this site, I went off the advice of some friends with pools. I opened the pool on Sunday, added 3 one pound bags of HTH shock on Monday. Then added another two bags on Tuesday and 4 pucks of trichlor tabs. Yesterday I discovered this site and saw that liquid chlorine is better than shock? So I added a gallon of 10% chlorine from the hardware store. Yesterday before adding the liquid chlorine the pool had actually turned from dark green (on Sunday) to a nicer teal/aqua color. It was still very murky/cloudy yesterday though. Today it started turning back to green though. So I'm wondering if the liquid chlorine made it worse somehow?

I also tried testing the chlorine levels with the kit I just got. I figured I'd do the 25 mL sample to get an accurate reading. However, when I went to add in the scoops to turn it pink, I couldn't really get it to turn pink. The kit says to keep adding the powder, and I think it finally started to turn a very light pink by the 6th or 7th scoop. But it shouldn't take that much right? Am I doing something wrong with these tests?

I'm on well water, so the idea of draining half the pool and refilling it has me worried I would run the well dry. We just moved in a few months ago so I don't have a great idea how large the well is. Is that something to worry about?

 

[AK-]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Can that be right?

Unlikely. 100 is the maximum you can test. Get another water sample and dilute it 50/50 with tap water before testing. Multiply the result by two.

My water sample was already fairly cloudy. That has to be accounted for already right?

Does not make much difference.

So I'm wondering if the liquid chlorine made it worse somehow?

Nope. That is because algae grows pretty fast and …

However, when I went to add in the scoops to turn it pink, I couldn't really get it to turn pink

you ran out of chlorine (if it doesn’t turn pink you have 0 chlorine).

I'm on well water, so the idea of draining half the pool and refilling

The only way to reduce CYA is drain/refill, but first you need to know your current CYA.

This might help with the tests: TF-100 kit quick reference guide testing instructions

Your CYA is the first thing we need to fix.
Can you post your other number (pH, TA and CH)?

 

[Texas Splash]

if I did it correctly I got a reading of 100. Can that be right?

It certainly can be. Let's go over some basic from your post:
- For those who used tabs (pucks) and bags of shock, teh CYA can quickly exceed 100 requiring a partial water exchange.
- Liquid chlorine is your pool's best food.
- Post a pic of that water. The colors could be an indication of something else like iron since you are on a well.
- Do you see any old pool store chemical containers laying around to give you an idea of what was used in the past?

Regardless, we need to know that CYA first. Go to the link below and see step #8. That should help tell us how much over 100 yoru CYA is.

Oh, and welcome to TFP!

 

[AK-]

@Texas Splash . Looks like you missed the link that has the step#8

 

[Texas Splash]

Looks like you missed the link that has the step#8

Rats!

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric acid (CYA) is the chemical name for the product commonly called “pool water stabilizer” … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Doug4523]

Welcome to TFP!!!


Unlikely. 100 is the maximum you can test. Get another water sample and dilute it 50/50 with tap water before testing. Multiply the result by two.

Does not make much difference.

Nope. That is because algae grows pretty fast and …

you ran out of chlorine (if it doesn’t turn pink you have 0 chlorine).

The only way to reduce CYA is drain/refill, but first you need to know your current CYA.

This might help with the tests: TF-100 kit quick reference guide testing instructions

Your CYA is the first thing we need to fix.
Can you post your other number (pH, TA and CH)?

It certainly can be. Let's go over some basic from your post:
- For those who used tabs (pucks) and bags of shock, teh CYA can quickly exceed 100 requiring a partial water exchange.
- Liquid chlorine is your pool's best food.
- Post a pic of that water. The colors could be an indication of something else like iron since you are on a well.
- Do you see any old pool store chemical containers laying around to give you an idea of what was used in the past?

Regardless, we need to know that CYA first. Go to the link below and see step #8. That should help tell us how much over 100 yoru CYA is.

Oh, and welcome to TFP!

Thank you both! Sorry I wasn't able to respond back sooner. I thought I'd get an email but didn't see one.

Last night after posting I figured I would need to drain at least some of the water, so I did that (took it down about 4 inches or so (down below the skimmer line)). It was originally a little overfilled with water from the winter/spring. Refilled it last night and again this morning and started the pump back up to circulate things. I also added a half gallon of 31% muriatic acid last night because the pH was purple (so above 8 right?). The poolmath app said a half gallon. I just retested and unfortunately for me I'm getting the same results:

- CYA is 120 (did the dilution test)
- pH is still purple (I'm color blind technically but it sure didn't look like it fell in the range of the tube)
- TA took 8-10 drops (again kinda hard for me being color blind but it seemed like it was starting to change around 8 drops, by 10 it was a different color but not sure I'd still call it red).
- I didn't do the chlorine test since it seemed useless with the current state of the pool.

I'm attaching some pictures of the pool. I assume the advice will be to drain the pool about 50%?

My friend who has had a pool for several years and always has it looking great, thinks draining the pool is a drastic measure, and I should first focus on getting the pH to 7.6. He said he's never had a problem with CYA and he uses shock and tabs as his chlorine. It's frustrating that I've ruined the pool somehow before I even got started.

The previous owners did leave some chemicals behind. Half a bottle of muriatic acid, an alk rise bucket, and an unopened cya bottle (I think we know why it's unopened ).

Do I have any chance of turning this around in the next couple days? I guess adding 10+ gallons of chlorine won't get me there? I have some increasingly impatient kids/spouse haha.

A side note question, while I was draining/backwashing I was thinking it might be good to do a deep clean on the filter since I read that can get pretty nasty. However, I was unable to get the lid off the filter. I tried for 45 minutes. It just wouldn't budge. I took the outer ring off and drained all the water out. I also read that there is an o-ring right at the opening that I wouldn't want to damage, so I didn't want to be too forceful with the screwdriver I was using to try to knock it loose. Any ideas/suggestions for that or should I not even bother?

 

[Texas Splash]

I'm attaching some pictures of the pool. I assume the advice will be to drain the pool about 50%?

Correct. No sense dumping chemicals that will just out to waste. See if you can bring that CYA down so we can really help you through the SLAM Process and bring that swamp back to its glory days.

 

[Texas Splash]

Do I have any chance of turning this around in the next couple days?

Unfortunately no. To swim safely you need to be able to see the bottom.

I was thinking it might be good to do a deep clean on the filter

The deep clean applies to sand filters. You seem to have a DE, so at some point (perhaps after the SLAM) you can open it up to inspect the grids and give it a thorough cleaning. With any luck backwashes will get you through the SLAM.

 

[Doug4523]

Correct. No sense dumping chemicals that will just out to waste. See if you can bring that CYA down so we can really help you through the SLAM Process and bring that swamp back to its glory days.

Unfortunately no. To swim safely you need to be able to see the bottom.

The deep clean applies to sand filters. You seem to have a DE, so at some point (perhaps after the SLAM) you can open it up to inspect the grids and give it a thorough cleaning. With any luck backwashes will get you through the SLAM.

Thanks again. So I need to drain about 40-50% of the pool? Is there any danger in doing that?

My question about the filter had more to do with the fact that I couldn't physically get the lid off. I'm not that weak. Is that normal?

 

[IceShadow]

I don't have experience with that filter so I can't answer that, but - you do want to lower your CYA from anywhere about 50-75%. The closer you can get it to 30ppm of CYA, the easier the SLAM will be. You can SLAM at higher levels of CYA, but it becomes impractical as it gets up above 60ppm as you will need REALLY high levels of FC and a lot of chlorine to keep up.

Dangers of draining a plaster pool are damage to the plaster from being dry in the sun (may not be an issue depending on your weather) and potentially the pool lifting out of the ground if your water level is high. If you want a safer way to exchange water, look into this:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You can turn the pump off, add water in the shallow end with a bucket on the steps, and have a submersible pump simultaneously draining from the deep end. The goal is to not disturb the water at all, as minimal as possible, so the new water stratifies and the old water doesn't mix with it. You time how long it takes to fill or pump out (whichever is slower) to get how many gallons per minute you're moving, and then figure out how long it needs to run to replace the water you need to replace. In your case I'd recommend planning to replace about 75% of the water, which should get you down to that 50-75% exchange area (the water will mix a little no matter how hard you try to keep it from mixing).

Once the CYA is under control you can begin the SLAM Process to clean it up. A bonus of exchanging the water is that you will be pumping out old, algae-laden water and hopefully the SLAM will go quicker with less algae in there.

 

[jeffchap]

I'm sorry you fell into this situation with your first pool, but don't get discouraged. It can be fixed, although I don't see any option to draining half your water and refilling. With water that green, it would literally take a tanker truck full of chlorine to clear it up with CYA that high. You would have to bring your FC to 48 ppm and keep it there for a week or two. You can calculate using Pool Math how much bleach would be required.

It looks like you have a plaster pool. So there's no real concern with draining it halfway.

As for your stuck filter cover, well I know what I would do. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS AS MY ADVICE TO DO THIS!!! I ABSOLVE MYSELF OF ANY RISK TO LIFE OR PROPERTY. But if it was me, I would take off the retaining ring and then bump the pump on for a second and see if the pressure knocked it loose. But's that's the way I roll. Again, this may be terrible advice and I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out exactly why.






But I'd still try it anyway...

 

[Doug4523]

I'm sorry you fell into this situation with your first pool, but don't get discouraged. It can be fixed, although I don't see any option to draining half your water and refilling. With water that green, it would literally take a tanker truck full of chlorine to clear it up with CYA that high. You would have to bring your FC to 48 ppm and keep it there for a week or two. You can calculate using Pool Math how much bleach would be required.

It looks like you have a plaster pool. So there's no real concern with draining it halfway.

As for your stuck filter cover, well I know what I would do. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS AS MY ADVICE TO DO THIS!!! I ABSOLVE MYSELF OF ANY RISK TO LIFE OR PROPERTY. But if it was me, I would take off the retaining ring and then bump the pump on for a second and see if the pressure knocked it loose. But's that's the way I roll. Again, this may be terrible advice and I'm sure someone will be along shortly to point out exactly why.






But I'd still try it anyway...

Thank you, and yesterday I actually saw in my google searches someone suggesting the same, so I did try that already! Unfortunately it didn't do anything. It's really stuck on there! I will try again at some point.

 

[jeffchap]

Good to know I'm not the only idiot around. Sorry it didn't work though.

 

[IceShadow]

Maybe take a picture of the filter from all sides so we can see if something looks strange?

 

[Flying Tivo]

My new mallet is a HEAT GUN. Try to heat around the seal to loosen it up. Be aware that you will probably need a new gasket so start looking into getting one and some PoolLube(silicone based lubricant) so this does not happen again.

 

[Doug4523]

See attached for more photos of the filter. Outer ring currently on since I'm running it at the moment. I will drain/replace this evening to hopefully lower the cya. When the time is right, I will try to open it again with a heat gun as suggested and get a new gasket. I have already ordered magic lube because I was going to replace the jandy valve o-rings just in case and I saw that was the suggested lube?

New question while everyone has been so helpful and quick to respond. What is this pool frog thing? It is pretty dirty so I'm not sure if the previous owners actually used it or not. They also left a Hayward automated Chlorinator (still in box, not installed). I assume I won't be needing that since I won't be using tabs going forward?

 

[IceShadow]

The frog thing adds minerals to the water like copper. Can kill algae but once in the water it never leaves, and can stain the pool and turn hair green. Not recommended.

 

[AK-]

Thanks again. So I need to drain about 40-50% of the pool? Is there any danger in doing that?

Check you local water table (ground water level). That is the only thing that could go wrong with your type of pool.

EDIT: I didn't realized some else already answered that.

 

[Flying Tivo]

What is this pool frog thing?

It appears its a hybrid system which is a SWG and mineral cartridge. Not an expert on that system.

https://www.kingtechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/PoolFrog_MH_Pre2009.pdf

You can still use it as a SWG but dont add the mineral cartridges, but i dont see it installed on the pipes anywhere.
Follow the cables from the frog panel to see where they lead to.

 

[mgtfp]

- pH is still purple (I'm color blind technically but it sure didn't look like it fell in the range of the tube)

If you are unsure about reading the pH test correctly, then grab someone who is not technically colourblind, and use the acid and base demand tests from your Taylor kit (R-0005 and R-0006) to change the colour of a sample all the way between dark red and yellow and cross-check with the other person if you read the same values along the way. If not, then an electronic pH Meter could be a work around for you.