Wet conduit

[KDpoolguy]

Got an issue. I pulled 30 feet of new spa light cord through and it was just maybe 2 feet short of what I needed. I am not pulling through another after the anguish and barely losing the line in the conduit.

I was pulling through the new light and the splice broke almost right where the water line is in the wet conduit line on the junction box side. Thank god it didn’t break any further down! I have just barely enough cable to pull the light fixture up on to the deck, but not comfortably enough on the junction box side to be high enough above the wet conduit water line for code.

The splice broke and I don’t think I have enough to even pull more line through even if I wanted to-thus sacrificing the deck length.

I’m working on redundancy fixes, but am not comfortable with my decisions yet. It’s a 120v light.

I purchased a pool light conduit leak rubber plug and I’ve been working on a water proof splice. Splicing just 2 feet of cable from old light to reach the j box. There is maybe 2-3 inches above the top waterline before the splice even starts, and am using multiple heat shrink wire insulators.
How can I make this work?!

 

[Dirk]

[You're not gunna like this. Skip ahead alert!]

Are you looking for advice about how to do this incorrectly? Sorry to be so blunt. Codes exist for a reason. Those reasons are not always obvious, but they often cover contingencies that are not immediately obvious. The splices (code or not) should only be in the boxes, at the recommend height above the water line, nowhere in the conduit. That's true of dry conduit, let alone wet. I wouldn't try this with 12V. Not even contemplate it with 120V. No amount of redundancy would make me feel comfortable swimming in your pool. Not that I'd get invited after this post!!

Did you use lubricant while pulling the wire?

You know what you have to do. Do it right. Run it again.

 

[jblizzle]

There should got be any splices in that wire. Is that from the light fixture? Because I thought the wires attached to the fixtures was wrapped in a rubber bundle

 

[Dirk]

Were you using a steel wire puller? That might have made things tougher. You could pull a rope through first, then use that to pull your wire. Any electricians peeking in on this thread? They'll have some wire pulling tricks for you... Or perhaps find an electrician forum and seek advice about pulling there.

And it doesn't matter if the conduit is running to the light or not. It's underground. They have a way of filling with water no matter what you do. And that's even if they don't get struck by a shovel or get chewed on. (Remember those contingencies I mentioned?)

 

[jza1736]

I'm a little confused. You said the wire broke from the pool side to the jbox. But your yellow circle is on the pipe coming from the gfi.

I would not splice in any pipe.

 

[Dirk]

I'm a little confused. You said the wire broke from the pool side to the jbox. But your yellow circle is on the pipe coming from the gfi.

I would not splice in any pipe.

The OP's description and the pic's are a little confusing. I think his broken wire is in a third pipe that is actually under the GFCI pipe, you can just barely see that in the pic. But, again, it doesn't matter where that pipe is coming from or going to, no splices in it allowed...

 

[Jhsparky82]

Any splice must be accessible. Not behind a wall, not in a conduit. This isn't unique to pools, it's everything. Splices of any kind must be in an enclosure listed for the purpose. No exceptions.

 

[tim5055]

I'll pile on and say, you need to pull a new wire - no splices.

 

[Arizonarob]

As everyone has stated, pull a new wire. Having pulled millions of miles of cable through conduit in my career, I can give some advice to pull the new cable.
Pull the old cable completely out of the conduit, send a wire snake through the conduit, attach pull string to the wire snake and pull the pull string through the conduit. Tie the pull string in a series of loop knots on to the new wire, wrap the knots in (tight) electrical tape. Now you will need a second person for the next step.
Take a wad of paper towels and pour in a good pile of Dawn dish soap. Have your helper stand at the entrance to the conduit and wrap that soap filled paper towel around the wire as you start pulling from the other end. The dish soap will act as a lubricant as it gets pulled through the pipe, and make it very easy to pull the wire. The soap will dissipate over time in the water.

 

[Dirk]

^^^ What he said! ^^^

Though I might try saving a step by tying the string (light rope) to the short wire before you pull it out, if there's enough there to tie to... I hate wrestling with wire snakes...

 

[Dirk]

Oh, and if you're running more than one wire, recruit all those people that have been/will be enjoying your pool, one for each wire. Untangle everything. Then have each person feed in their wire as you pull. This will ensure the wires don't twist and tangle. If you're trying to feed in a group of wires that are all wrapped around each other is a bundle, every time a wire crosses another you get a little more friction against the conduit, especially in the bends.

 

[sktn77a]

I'd consider two options:

1. Pull a new wire (cheapest).
2. Replace the light with a low volatge LED and splice the existing wire (shouldn't be a hazard, but I don't know if it is a code violation).

 

[Meadow]

KD, lots of good advice here but are those the wires came with your new light fixture? You may want to drain the spa and consider some of the options mentioned above me.

Or....install another j-box where you can comfortably splice the cables and then run to the existing j-box.

 

[KDpoolguy]

The OP's description and the pic's are a little confusing. I think his broken wire is in a third pipe that is actually under the GFCI pipe, you can just barely see that in the pic. But, again, it doesn't matter where that pipe is coming from or going to, no splices in it allowed...

Yes, the angle of the photo doesn’t too clearly show, but the Power from GFCI Conduit is directly above the spa light wet conduit we are discussing here.

I used a bunch of clear wire pulling lubricant, and the splice ripped off at my last pull.

I can pull another fixture at much fear. I’m punch-drunk fearful thinking about pulling 30 feet again. I presume I can use existing fixture and replace bulb to 12v and get a transformer?

I can pull another foot thru, avoid need for splice and yes, if bulb needs replacing I’d have to lower water level.

 

[kairus00]

Why not just shorten the horizontal run of conduit you have? Shorten it to give you some extra wire length, then throw an elbow on it and run the conduit vertically high enough that you pass the water line. You can then put a j-box at the point, do the splices, and then take it from there?

 

[Arizonarob]

I used a bunch of clear wire pulling lubricant, and the splice ripped off at my last pull.

I was hoping you didn’t use that stuff. Problem with that stuff is it’s ment for dry conduit, not water filled. That stuff when mixed with chlorine turns to a gummy mess in the conduit, and makes it very difficult to pull out the old wire down the road.
Anyway, at this point I would go the route of pulling another foot of wire to make it safe, and just lowering the water level in the future for repairs.

 

[tstex]

dish soap is completely inert and always the best for pulling wire...sorry you created the tough pull...

if I were you, I'd load up another pull w dishsoap now instead of later and get 2 more guys: one feeding the wire w soap and another w you pulling it. As stated, the wire lube w CL water is going to gunk-up like playdough...if you ever have to run wire again, now is the time to make it right. It will be tough, but once done, you'll be glad you did it. If not, you'll always be guessing it. Skip the junction box and splicing and do another homerun of the proper length - good luck

 

[KDpoolguy]

Why not just shorten the horizontal run of conduit you have? Shorten it to give you some extra wire length, then throw an elbow on it and run the conduit vertically high enough that you pass the water line. You can then put a j-box at the point, do the splices, and then take it from there?

I added this to my possibilities list and did it tonight just as a test. I only had about 18 inches to sacrifice of horizontal run before it starts going under the taper concrete deck. The smooth 90 eats up a lot of needed space so I used a hard 90 with the pull access panel, and it’s better, but not enough to avoid at least a foot of splice—at least the splice would be 6 inches above the waterline.

Here’s another option that was mentioned. I have a small 6 foot diameter planter opening with no plants just stone ground cover that starts 5 feet from the edge of the spa, right next to and above the niche! I could conceivably dig and add a new intermediary junction box and solve all this. I would imagine the conduit runs very near this if not under it.

My question is does the conduit come up off the niche like the linked image shows?
And then conduit runs maybe only 2 feet below grade?
Hayward DuraNiche Vinyl Fiberglass Pool Light Niche

I know, I’m getting close to purchasing a 50 foot fixture and a new run, ugh!

Thanks all.

 

[Arizonarob]

A new run would be your best bet. As TX said above, if you do it now, you’ll avoid problems down the road. Just follow my advice I gave above, and it will go smooth.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Alright! Fall temps are back and ready to finish this up. I pulled a new fixture and purchased new Pentair lexan junction boxes. I bought the boxes awhile ago for the gaskets but mistakenly got the 1/2” instead of the 3/4”. We’re looking to sell or rent this house soon, so gotta get it all tidied up.

The original setup used cast metal pipes in some ground-to-jbox and some are grey pvc conduit. They also used cast metal to run power wire from spa jbox to pool jbox. I’m using liquid-tight conduit (flexible stuff). Fingers crossed this works as once this is wired I need to tackle the new GFCI which is giving me trouble.