Very noisy pump... Do I need a new one? Or just replace the motor? Or bearings?

[Westovers]

A "Full rate" motor has a fairly large Service Factor. Typically, about 1.3 to 1.99. An "Uprated" or "Max rated" motor has a smaller Service Factor. Usually 1.0 to 1.3.

The only thing that matters is the Total HP of the motor, which is the rated HP x Service Factor.

A 1 hp full rated motor with a 1.65 sf is the same as a 1.5 hp max rated motor with a 1.1 sf.

It's all kind of ridiculous because they sell two identical pumps as if they were different.

Thank you James. Is "Max Rate" used in these motors' descriptions the same thing as "full rate"? In that case, the SPX3205Z1MR would give me the same flow (too much) that I've had, but the SPX3207Z1MR would probably be just fine, right?

I'm also slightly confused by your motor and impeller matches/recommendations--the first match seems to be 3/4hp and 1/2hp respectively, but the second is 1hp and 3/4hp, but then you did say I could use either impeller with the second motor... Would all 3 of these combinations decrease my preset flow, just less significantly? If so, in which order?

And returning to your other idea of replumbing to use the main pump for the waterfall, what would I do with the existing line that brings water from the pool to the old pump for the waterfall (which uses separate intake drains in pool)?

 

[JamesW]

The SP3205EE TriStar pump is a full rated pump with a listed hp of 0.5, a service factor of 1.98 and a total hp of 0.99.

The SP3205X7 TriStar pump is a max rated pump with a listed hp of 0.75, a service factor of 1.25 and a total hp of 0.94.

The two above pumps are identical. They both use a SPX3205C impeller. If you switch to that impeller, you need a square flange motor with a total of 1.0 hp.

The SP3207EE TriStar pump is a full rated pump with a listed hp of 0.75, a service factor of 1.85 and a total hp of 1.39.

The SP3207X10 TriStar pump is a max rated pump with a listed hp of 1.0, a service factor of 1.25 and a total hp of 1.25.

The two above pumps are identical. They both use a SPX3207C or SPX3207CM impeller. If you switch to that impeller, you need a square flange motor with a total of 1.25 hp.

So, you can switch to a SPX3205C impeller and a total 1 hp motor or a SPX3207CM impeller and a total 1.25 hp motor.

If you get the 1.25 hp motor, you can use either impeller depending on the flow requirements. The SPX3207CM impeller will give better flow than the SPX3205C impeller.

Both will be less flow than your current motor/impeller combination. The best option is probably the 1.25 total hp motor with the SPX3207CM impeller because you can restrict the flow with a valve or switch to the SPX3205C impeller if the flow is too high.

Note that the SPX3207C impeller is rated for 1.39 hp and the SPX3207CM impeller is rated for 1.25 hp, but I think that they are the exact same impeller. Either way, if you get a 1.25 total hp motor, get the SPX3207CM impeller.

If you choose to replumb the fountain as a return, you can plumb the suction into the main pump suction or plumb it as a return. If you plumb it as a suction, you need to make sure that it's code compliant with current regulations. Mostly dual drains and current covers.

The SPX3205C impeller can use motor SPX3205Z1BER or SPX3205Z1MR or any 1.0 total hp motor with a 56Y frame.

The SPX3207CM impeller can use motor SPX3207Z1BER or SPX3207Z1MR or any 1.25 total hp motor with a 56Y frame.

The square flange motors come in a 48Y or 56Y frame. The Y means square flange. The 48 or 56 indicates the motor diameter. You have a 56Y frame motor. The 56Y is a larger diameter than the 48Y. The 48Y will work but it won't rest on the lower support. So, it would cause extra stress on the motor mounting bolts. The 48Y usually comes with a rubber spacer that can fill the gap between the motor and the lower support.

 

[Westovers]

That's not the right type of motor. You need a square flange motor.

Your current motor is a full speed model (3450 rpm). A full speed motor does better at higher pressure and it does not do well at low pressure.

You can use a full speed motor that's smaller and use a smaller impeller. That's the cheapest option to repair your existing pump. It's not ideal, but it will work.
Motor part number SPX3205Z1MR.
Impeller part number SPX3205C

This will reduce your flow quite a bit. So, if there's any doubt, you might want to get a SPX3207Z1MR motor and a SPX3207CM impeller. If you get this motor, you can use either impeller.

A half speed motor (1725 rpm) works better at lower pressure. It's quieter and uses less electricity. It's more expensive because it's a "special" motor.

The third option is to just replumb so that you can use the fountain as a return. You can adjust the flow as needed.

Thank you James. Regarding your recs above... Can you tell me how the first motor option, and second motor option with each of those two impellers, might compare to my present configuration, knowing I want to decrease my flow?

 

[JamesW]

How much flow do you need?

How much overpowered is the current pump?

What is the plumbing to the fountain.?

Assuming that the pump is significantly overpowered, I would suggest the 1.25 total hp and the 07 impeller. If it's still too much flow, you can switch to the 05 impeller.

 

[Westovers]

How much flow do you need?

How much overpowered is the current pump?

What is the plumbing to the fountain.?

Assuming that the pump is significantly overpowered, I would suggest the 1.25 total hp and the 07 impeller. If it's still too much flow, you can switch to the 05 impeller.

Maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of what I had? I can get the first (3/4 hp) motor much sooner, and need to as the temps drop and freeze protect has it running at night! In that case, to ensure I have enough flow, should I get the 3/4 hp impeller instead? And what else do I need to do this DIY?

 

[JamesW]

The SPX3205C impeller can use motor SPX3205Z1BER or SPX3205Z1MR or any 1.0 total hp motor with a 56Y frame.

The SPX3207CM impeller can use motor SPX3207Z1BER or SPX3207Z1MR or any 1.25 total hp motor with a 56Y frame.

To be safe, I would get the SPX3207CM impeller and 1.25 total hp motor. You will also need.

Impeller ring part number SPX3021R.
SPX4000Z1 Diffuser O-Ring.
SPX3200T Housing Gasket.
SPX3200SA Shaft Seal Assembly.

Realize that the flow will be less than you have now. If the current pump is significantly overpowered, the SPX3207CM should be fine. If it's close, you might be disappointed with the new flow.

Can you describe the waterfall?

 

[JamesW]

Doing some rough calculations, I think that you could get at least 2/3 flow from the SPX3205C impeller and 1 hp total motor (perhaps up to 78%).

I think that you might get up to 86% flow using a SPX3207CM impeller and a 1.25 hp total motor.

 

[Westovers]

Doing some rough calculations, I think that you could get at least 2/3 flow from the SPX3205C imeller and 1 hp total motor (perhaps up to 78%).

I think that you might get up to 86% flow using a SPX3207CM impeller and a 1.25 hp total motor.

Thank you James. Do the impeller ring part, diffuser O-Ring, housing gasket, and shaft seal assembly numbers change if I go with your first option here (vs. the one you gave above)?

 

[Westovers]

 

[JamesW]

Thank you James. Do the impeller ring part, diffuser O-Ring, housing gasket, and shaft seal assembly numbers change if I go with your first option here (vs. the one you gave above)?

No, the parts are the same.

 

[Westovers]

The SPX3205C impeller can use motor SPX3205Z1BER or SPX3205Z1MR or any 1.0 total hp motor with a 56Y frame.

The SPX3207CM impeller can use motor SPX3207Z1BER or SPX3207Z1MR or any 1.25 total hp motor with a 56Y frame.

To be safe, I would get the SPX3207CM impeller and 1.25 total hp motor. You will also need.

Impeller ring part number SPX3021R.
SPX4000Z1 Diffuser O-Ring.
SPX3200T Housing Gasket.
SPX3200SA Shaft Seal Assembly.

Realize that the flow will be less than you have now. If the current pump is significantly overpowered, the SPX3207CM should be fine. If it's close, you might be disappointed with the new flow.

Can you describe the waterfall?

Thank you James. Out of curiosity and effort to understand, why does the SPX3205C and SPX3207CM say 1/2 and 3/4 hp respectively in their product descriptions, in contrast to your 1.0 and 1.25 matching descriptions here above? What is the significance of matching the impeller to motor, and what happens if they don't match, either being higher or lower? Thank you again,

 

[JamesW]

The 1/2 and 3/4 ratings are mostly marketing descriptions. What matters is the total hp, which is the rated hp x the service factor.

The half hp motor has a 1.99 sf, so it's really a 1.0 total hp motor. You can use any 56Y frame motor as long as the total is 1.0. They say 0.98 because it's illegal in some places to use a single speed filter pump unless it's less than 1.0 hp total. By saying 0.98, it allows them to slip under the 1.0 limit.

The 3/4 motor is really a 1.25 hp total motor.

If the motor is undersized for the impeller, the motor will be overloaded and it will overheat.

If the motor is oversized a little bit, it's ok but you don't want it way oversized.

 

[Westovers]

The 1/2 and 3/4 ratings are mostly marketing descriptions. What matters is the total hp, which is the rated hp x the service factor.

The half hp motor has a 1.99 sf, so it's really a 1.0 total hp motor. You can use any 56Y frame motor as long as the total is 1.0. They say 0.98 because it's illegal in some places to use a single speed filter pump unless it's less than 1.0 hp total. By saying 0.98, it allows them to slip under the 1.0 limit.

The 3/4 motor is really a 1.25 hp total motor.

If the motor is undersized for the impeller, the motor will be overloaded and it will overheat.

If the motor is oversized a little bit, it's ok but you don't want it way oversized.

A pool mechanic friend would like to replace my motor with this: Century B2853 with this impeller: SPX3010C. Will that be OK?

 

[JamesW]

The SPX3010C goes to a Hayward Super II pump, but you have a Tristar.

The SPX3210C takes a 1.65 total hp motor.

Your current impeller should be SPX3210C.

The SPX3207CM will work with a 1.25 hp total motor. The Century B2853 is a 1.25 total hp motor.

An SPX3205C would probably be enough. It would require a 1.0 hp total motor.

 

[Westovers]

The SPX3010C goes to a Hayward Super II pump, but you have a Tristar.

The SPX3210C takes a 1.65 total hp motor.

Your current impeller should be SPX3210C.

The SPX3207CM will work with a 1.25 hp total motor. The Century B2853 is a 1.25 total hp motor.

An SPX3205C would probably be enough. It would require a 1.0 hp total motor.

Thank you James. Unfortunately he came, installed it, and left before I heard back from you (I gave you far too little time to respond). The SPX3010C is what came out of my old pump. It seemed to be in fine condition, and he said his "book" said it would work with the Century B2853. Do you agree or disagree? Do you think it will do damage to our new Century B2853 motor?

Interestingly, the resulting waterfall flow seems to be about the same as it was with my 1.85 total HP motor--far too much to look realistic, and therefore has to be limited again by a valve I have near the waterfall.

Thank you again,

 

[JamesW]

The SPX3010C goes to a Hayward Super II pump, but you have a Tristar.

The SPX3210C takes a 1.65 total hp motor.

Your current impeller should be SPX3210C.

The SPX3207CM will work with a 1.25 hp total motor. The Century B2853 is a 1.25 total hp motor.

The SPX3210C will damage the Century B2853 motor.

 

[Westovers]

The SPX3010C goes to a Hayward Super II pump, but you have a Tristar.

The SPX3210C takes a 1.65 total hp motor.

Your current impeller should be SPX3210C.

The SPX3207CM will work with a 1.25 hp total motor. The Century B2853 is a 1.25 total hp motor.

The SPX3210C will damage the Century B2853 motor.

James, I'm not sure if your last statement was a typo, but he installed a SPX3010C (NOT a SPX3210C). My question is if the SPX3010C will damage a Century B2853 motor... Thank you,

 

[JamesW]

The SPX3010C impeller is the wrong impeller for the TriStar pump. I don't think that it will fit or work at all.

Maybe it will, but I don't think so.

Did you actually see the part number on the impeller and see it get installed?

In any case, it's the wrong impeller for the TriStar pump and you should use the correct part.

The SPX3010C requires 1.5 hp total, so it's too much for the 1.25 total motor.

The correct impeller would be a SPX3207CM or SPX3205C.

 

[Westovers]

There's no way that he installed a SPX3010C in a Tristar. It would not work at all.

I'm so sorry--that was MY mistake. I must have made a typo earlier above. You are correct, it is a SPX3210C...

Is there any way I could show him in writing somewhere online that this is a bad match? Could you please point me to your source? Thank you,

 

[JamesW]

Your old motor was 1.85 total and it came with a SPX3210C impeller. That shows what hp the impeller takes. You never reduce hp on a pump with original parts without reducing the impeller.

You have to go to Hayward's TriStar page to see the models and what total hp each has. Then, you go to parts to see which parts each takes.

The 1 hp full rated pump takes a SPX3210C impeller and uses a 1.85 total hp motor.

The 1.5 hp max rated tristar takes the same SPX3210C impeller and uses a 1.65 total hp motor.

Your original motor was 1.85 hp total, so that's normally what you would need to use unless you replaced the impeller.

However, since the max rated tristar uses a 1.65 total hp motor with a SPX3210C, that means you can use a 1.65 hp motor.

The SPX3210C will overload a 1.25 total hp motor and cause it to fail earlier than normal and it might overheat enough to cause the thermal overload to turn the pump off.

The reason that the flow is the same as before is because the impeller is the same.

It would be best to switch to a SPX3207CM or SPX3205C impeller.