- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Is this helpful? This is how I described it to another here, struggling the same way I first did.
thinking of emptying pool
- Thread starter outdoorsgal
- Start date
that sounds familiar. I don't know why I was thinking the opposite. If it's always that way for everything that'll be pretty easy to remember (I hope).
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
No, not everything. I couldn't get salt right until I figured that out. With salt it's: first drop turns it milky, then drop, drop, drop, until the color first changes dramatically, and sticks. You'll see flashes of color, but they'll revert back to the milky color. Then one of the flashes will turn the whole vial salmon/reddish in one go, and stay that way, and then you're done. If you keep going like for TA, you'll get a yucky brown, and that's too far.
thx Dirk.
On another note, does anyone have an opinion about emptying a pool from a hose bib that's sticking out of my pool pump or/and backwashing water out of pool? Maybe it's too hard on the filter to backwash the water out of the whole pool? Then I'd have to make extra sure water wasn't sucking in through anything? I think I'm answering my own question. With that, if there are any tips for backwashing that's be great. My guess is:
1. shut off panel so there's no power going to the pool.
2. put pump near drain which should be the most shallow part of my pool
3. drain.
4. while pool is draining take apart DE filter. I thought of backwashing as step one but if I'm able to do this I guess there's no need to backwash unless it's good for the pipes, too?
4 start refilling with a couple of hoses immediately.
5. add salt, CYA, chlorine/begin looking at #s
Anything else? thx!
On another note, does anyone have an opinion about emptying a pool from a hose bib that's sticking out of my pool pump or/and backwashing water out of pool? Maybe it's too hard on the filter to backwash the water out of the whole pool? Then I'd have to make extra sure water wasn't sucking in through anything? I think I'm answering my own question. With that, if there are any tips for backwashing that's be great. My guess is:
1. shut off panel so there's no power going to the pool.
2. put pump near drain which should be the most shallow part of my pool
3. drain.
4. while pool is draining take apart DE filter. I thought of backwashing as step one but if I'm able to do this I guess there's no need to backwash unless it's good for the pipes, too?
4 start refilling with a couple of hoses immediately.
5. add salt, CYA, chlorine/begin looking at #s
Anything else? thx!
A quick note on AZ and draining. Plaster doesn't like heat, and we're just about out of cool days here. You will need to make sure your plaster is kept moist with a hose - a full spray down every 15 minutes or so in our dry air - while the water level is down. Direct sunlight on dry plaster if it's going to be 90 or above should be avoided. In this case, you want to drain and fill as fast as possible - which means using a submersible pump. They can be rented at Home Depot very inexpensively.
With regards to your checklist:
As I just mentioned, the pump hose bib is too slow, and you risk losing prime on your pump depending on how it's plumbed. Best bet is a sub-pump.
Put pump near the drain which is the deepest part of your pool (not shallow - I'm guessing this is a typo)
Add "while pool is draining and filling, keep exposed plaster moist with a hose at all times".
Add "while pool is draining, after water level has dropped below the level of all light fixtures, remove light fixtures and use a hose to spray the niche out behind them"/
Add "while pool is empty, double check drain covers, make sure retention screws are snug (don't over tighten)"
Before and around #5 - "use concentrated, plain, unscented bleach to bring FC to 3ppm", after CYA is added, use bleach to bring FC up to correct level for new CYA number. Maintain FC with bleach until all salt is dissolved and SWG is restarted"
With regards to your checklist:
As I just mentioned, the pump hose bib is too slow, and you risk losing prime on your pump depending on how it's plumbed. Best bet is a sub-pump.
Put pump near the drain which is the deepest part of your pool (not shallow - I'm guessing this is a typo)
Add "while pool is draining and filling, keep exposed plaster moist with a hose at all times".
Add "while pool is draining, after water level has dropped below the level of all light fixtures, remove light fixtures and use a hose to spray the niche out behind them"/
Add "while pool is empty, double check drain covers, make sure retention screws are snug (don't over tighten)"
Before and around #5 - "use concentrated, plain, unscented bleach to bring FC to 3ppm", after CYA is added, use bleach to bring FC up to correct level for new CYA number. Maintain FC with bleach until all salt is dissolved and SWG is restarted"
great. thx. I made a word doc and added these to my list. I also added "clean salt cell" while pool is draining. Unfortunately I do not have the strength to get the cell off but the neighbor is getting their bathroom remodeled so I'll ask to borrow one of the guy's muscles to unscrew it if I get stuck since this will be time sensitive. I'm doing it tonight since it's supposed to be in low 70s tomorrow.
I wanted to ask why should I take the lights out to clean behind them? In case there's algae? We got them replaced within the last year and the pb did not "see" algae. I hesitate to get in over my head with all of this and limited time to do it tomorrow if I do something wrong but I'm hoping taking out the lights is a no brainer. This will also be the first time I'll be doing the DE tear down by myself so I'll take pics... Today's overcast. I hope tomorrow is like this!
Tonight would be the perfect time as tomorrow is going to be cooler. Do exactly as triptyx says above, if you rent the pump, drop it in when sun goes down off your pool, and in about 5-6 hours you should be good to start the refill. By sunrise you should be at least halfway up with water, then you can simply hose down the exposed plaster till it fills up.
nice. that's what I'll do minus the home depot rental. On my way to harbor freight to get a submersible pump. might be a waist of money if we get a water softener but we'll have it if we ever need it...
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I looked on what the panel says for my size pool for salt. It said 2700-3400 so thinking there's be some salt left in the pool after drain, I'd put 2900 in pool math to buy that much and then add in a couple stages to make sure I wasn't going over. pool math said 349 lbs of salt? I dont' remember the pb carrying out more than one or two bags of salt when they started the pool. Could this # be right? thx
I remember that. Wasn’t that the whole..”What kind of salmon are these people eating?” post?
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Ha, yep, at no point does that test reveal any color that looks like salmon to me!!
Gal-
Don't assume your water has no salt in it before you start dumping it in. Test your fill water first, and put that number into Pool Math if it's not zero (mine was about 300). And it's prudent to stop adding a few bags short, wait a day or two, test again, then add the rest of what you need. That'll keep you from overshooting.
If you use the water meter trick, you'll be able to dial in a pretty good number of bags, but better safe than sorry.
One thing I'm trying in my pool, is to put in the minimum amount of salt to get my SWG to work, at the very bottom of its recommend range for salt. Pool chemicals add salt, so I'll have a head start and will hopefully stall the next water exchange as much as possible. That may or may not work come cold weather, because of the way my SWG analyzes the salt level, but I'll deal with that then.
Gal-
Don't assume your water has no salt in it before you start dumping it in. Test your fill water first, and put that number into Pool Math if it's not zero (mine was about 300). And it's prudent to stop adding a few bags short, wait a day or two, test again, then add the rest of what you need. That'll keep you from overshooting.
If you use the water meter trick, you'll be able to dial in a pretty good number of bags, but better safe than sorry.
One thing I'm trying in my pool, is to put in the minimum amount of salt to get my SWG to work, at the very bottom of its recommend range for salt. Pool chemicals add salt, so I'll have a head start and will hopefully stall the next water exchange as much as possible. That may or may not work come cold weather, because of the way my SWG analyzes the salt level, but I'll deal with that then.
Phillbo
0
Much cheaper to rent a pump from Home Depot and it comes with a hose long enough to reach the clean out in the front of the house (know how far the run is before you go as it may take a couple sections of hose). You don't have to flood your street that way.
The light niches are great places for muck and other yuckiness to accumulate. It's nice to run the hose behind the light fixtures from time to time to clean them out. It's usually as easy as undoing a single screw and should be a fast process. It's optional, if you're short on time to get things done, don't worry about it.
i'm starting to wonder about the water meter trick. it's a great idea in really cool temperature with a fast pump but if i'm hosing down the pool x 15 as suggested here that skews the #s quite a bit. I'll do the math and see how long it'll take, what time i'll start so that i can be home to start filling at a certain time. I imagine I'll want to "sweep" out the pool or skim what's on the bottom or something for one thing. there are leaves on the bottom right now. also the pb told me to get in the pool as the water is low and take pics of any cracked tile and areas that need to be regrouted so they can decide if they'll drop the water level soon or do it in the fall. there's at least one cracked tile with the crack following the tile below it.
great call on the salt, too. I'll measure that out of the tap, too. I'll measure later when i have time
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Dirk, as for the low amt of salt, I'd have to check what i started with and what I finished with. I think i'm lower than I started due to backwashing. Do u have to backwash with a cartridge filter?
thankyou. we can't find a clean-out and called the city. they said they'd have no blueprint of one so someday when we need to hire a plumber I'm thinking we'll have him put a snake in the pipes or something to try to find a cleanout or maybe pay the money for one? I guess if we end up getting a water softener the need for a clean out wouldn't be so much? we don't live in a HOA and I saw someone emptying their pool in the street today. great day for it! a neighbor was complaining about a house emptying their pool, though, once.
I think the pump cost $60 with 20% off coupon and $25 hose with 20% coupon. My 9 year old was with me as I had to pick her up sick from school (so I was able to use both coupons). She actually got sick before going in and after coming out so we decided quick and easy. They were sold out of their bigger pump and all they had that we could use (according to the guy there) only empties 1600 gallons/hr so it'll take a while. He recommended a hose over the thin blue expandable pool hose as the pump had a fitting for it and the hose was 100 feet so I should be good. He said the pump is $60 at HD. If that's the case I'm not over my much and have the equipment for next time!
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ok. I'll make sure electric is off.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,681
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The meter trick works best if the pool is empty, but even if there's a smallish puddle in the bottom it'll get you closer than any pool volume calculator. You could even add your guess of the puddle's gallons to your end number.
Are you worried about the spray downs every 15 minutes? That's not really a problem. Are you planning on spraying both before and after it's empty? That doesn't really matter either. Spray away. The only critical point is at the bottom. Spray the pool about five or ten minutes before you hit bottom (if you're spraying before it's empty). Let the wet walls drain into the puddle. Pump the puddle dry as much as possible. Snap the picture of the water meter. That's it. Start your fill. After that you can spray as little or as much you want, doesn't matter. The water from spraying the plaster all runs into the pool, and helps fill it. As long as you're spraying from your hose bibs (and not a neighbor's), and not over-spraying all over your deck and yard, then all that water is coming through the meter, all going into the pool, all counts to your total volume. See?
You might lose a little water to evaporation. But that'll be gallons, or tens of gallons. Not the hundreds or thousands of gallons it would take to mess up your end number to any great degree. And city meters can have a margin of error of 1-1.5%, so the final number is only going to be so close anyway. But like I said, it'll be much closer than trying to do volume math on a curved, round, multi-depth, stair-havin', bench-havin' hole. And plenty accurate enough for pool chemistry math. It'll only interrupt your process by the time it takes you to run to the meter and snap a picture of it.
Any help?
Bonus tip: mark the desired water level (usually the middle of your skimmer opening), or wherever it's been, or wherever you want it to end up, with a piece of tape. Stop the fill when it gets to the tape, take your second picture. It's harder than you might think to figure out where mid-skimmer is when there's water in it (reflections, refractions, etc).
Are you worried about the spray downs every 15 minutes? That's not really a problem. Are you planning on spraying both before and after it's empty? That doesn't really matter either. Spray away. The only critical point is at the bottom. Spray the pool about five or ten minutes before you hit bottom (if you're spraying before it's empty). Let the wet walls drain into the puddle. Pump the puddle dry as much as possible. Snap the picture of the water meter. That's it. Start your fill. After that you can spray as little or as much you want, doesn't matter. The water from spraying the plaster all runs into the pool, and helps fill it. As long as you're spraying from your hose bibs (and not a neighbor's), and not over-spraying all over your deck and yard, then all that water is coming through the meter, all going into the pool, all counts to your total volume. See?
You might lose a little water to evaporation. But that'll be gallons, or tens of gallons. Not the hundreds or thousands of gallons it would take to mess up your end number to any great degree. And city meters can have a margin of error of 1-1.5%, so the final number is only going to be so close anyway. But like I said, it'll be much closer than trying to do volume math on a curved, round, multi-depth, stair-havin', bench-havin' hole. And plenty accurate enough for pool chemistry math. It'll only interrupt your process by the time it takes you to run to the meter and snap a picture of it.
Any help?
Bonus tip: mark the desired water level (usually the middle of your skimmer opening), or wherever it's been, or wherever you want it to end up, with a piece of tape. Stop the fill when it gets to the tape, take your second picture. It's harder than you might think to figure out where mid-skimmer is when there's water in it (reflections, refractions, etc).
that makes sense as I was not factoring in the curved sides so that does take off gallons. Don't ask what I was thinking regarding wetting down the pool. Ofcourse it would end up in the same place. I do plan on spraying during drain and during fill. I was also thinking I'll be using water to break down the DE filter but I guess that'd be 10s of gallons like you said, so it may still be worth a good guess. It would be ideal to do the meter trick overnight which I would've liked to do if I wasn't emptying the pool at night. I'll do it this time and each time I empty the pool to have a good idea.
When you were talking about Spraying the pool about five or ten minutes before I hit bottom when draining are you saying to get the walls good and clean? do u get into the pool and use a skimmer to take out the leaves or is there a better method? Thx!
so I think i'm going to break down the DE filter right now while it's still light out. any need to backwash first since I'm draining the pool?
I added to the list a couple of things. Shut off autofill, I backwashed, then broke down the DE filter, took out the salt cell and there was very minimal salt so I'm going to bring it to Leslies tomorrow to have them test it. Not sure if there's just a sensor covered by a bit of calcium or it's going bad with so many "low salt" signals.
I got the pump going with the 100 foot hose and a nieghbor suggested I do another syphon with other hoses. The other hoses were combinations of a curly hose, an expandable hose, a hose with a nozzle that is difficult to remove-cheapy hose. It's looking like the water that is coming out of the 2 hoses, now, with the way the combinations r with the hoses on the pump is not the greatest but it's steady. The syphon is definitely less than it was pumping out when it was on the pump but I'm still impressed it's working.
So, I probably wont' have to go out at 2am at this rate. It's looking like it's going to be slow. Must've got the pump in the pool at 7pm after backwashing and it's just down to the bottom of the tile line now so i'll do a bit of math and set my alarm for whatever time it's looking like it should be nearing the end. couldn't quite reach the middle of the pool with the 100' hose so i might let some of that water go on my grass. i can't see it killing bermuda.
I still haven't figured out what to do with the leaves at the bottom. I've been brushing the past few days to get them near the drain or at least floating so they'd go in the skimmer but they prob need to be vacuumed (so glad I made pb put in a vac line). I'll figure it out but prob brush a bit when it's near the bottom. It's ok to go in the pool with little water, right? (with clean feet).
thx for your help!
I got the pump going with the 100 foot hose and a nieghbor suggested I do another syphon with other hoses. The other hoses were combinations of a curly hose, an expandable hose, a hose with a nozzle that is difficult to remove-cheapy hose. It's looking like the water that is coming out of the 2 hoses, now, with the way the combinations r with the hoses on the pump is not the greatest but it's steady. The syphon is definitely less than it was pumping out when it was on the pump but I'm still impressed it's working.
So, I probably wont' have to go out at 2am at this rate. It's looking like it's going to be slow. Must've got the pump in the pool at 7pm after backwashing and it's just down to the bottom of the tile line now so i'll do a bit of math and set my alarm for whatever time it's looking like it should be nearing the end. couldn't quite reach the middle of the pool with the 100' hose so i might let some of that water go on my grass. i can't see it killing bermuda.
I still haven't figured out what to do with the leaves at the bottom. I've been brushing the past few days to get them near the drain or at least floating so they'd go in the skimmer but they prob need to be vacuumed (so glad I made pb put in a vac line). I'll figure it out but prob brush a bit when it's near the bottom. It's ok to go in the pool with little water, right? (with clean feet).
thx for your help!
I'm wondering if I should go out and try to come up with another scenario. Seems things were going faster before i did the syphon as the hose with the pump was going faster. I hate to disconnect the syphon but much more water seemed to be coming out of the pump hose before we added a long stretchable hose that has a nozzle build right onto it. if it's taking 2 hrs to empty 2 inches it'll take a good 30 hrs to empty the pool. For a 1600 gallon per hour pump it's not adding up. One disclaimer-I didn't go with the blue hose from the pool store since the guy at harbor freight said that hose is really $ and the fitting for the pump i got (Drummond 1/6 HP submersible utility pump-1600 gallons per hour max flow at 0 ft. 3/4" garden hose thread discharge prot; 25' maximum head lift at 0 ghp) has the 3/4" garden hose thread and it was better than trying to attach a blue pool hose. With that, I'm wondering how much of that is the reason I'm not getting good enough flow, how much is the nozzles and types of hoses and would it go faster if I bought 100' of blue hose and tried to attach it tomorrow? How can I make this quicker?
Oly
Gold Supporter
The pumps flow rate is calculated with very little "head". Lifting water out of the pool will slow the flow rate as the height from the water surface to ground level increases. It's a common mistake to overestimate the flow rate when draining from a sump or pool in this case. Pumps also have a maximum lift capability at which point they will stop lifting water altogether. A sump pump with a five horsepower motor is what you need to make short work of the drain.