Thinking about SWG - high CYA issues

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jandersen13

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Feb 27, 2015
180
Grand Rapids MI
I'm looking in to changing my pool from manual chlorine to a SWG. This is due to using a chlorinator with pucks as I have not been able to do the manual liquid chlorine due to a number of factors (some of them being just on my side that I don't want to do each day). So I think my best route to avoid high CYA each season is to switch to SWG.

High CYA started happening last season for me as I had a new vinyl liner put in the summer before. My new liner covers the steps, so the pool company recommends I do not drain the water for closing below returns so the liner does not get messed up (I used to drain below with the old liner). With draining that much each season, I was replacing almost half of my water each season (only 6 feet deep in deep end) and then when opening, CYA was zero. But now that I don't drain, the CYA remains over the winter and this year I am 100+ at opening.

So I have a few questions as I explore this. Does anyone have a recommendation for which SWG to use for my pool? Details are in the signature. I don't have a separate timer for the pump, as the new pump contains a timer built in. Can I wire the SWG to the pumps timer?

Also, what do I need to do before changing to SWG? As my CYA is high, do I need to replace water as well?
 
You need to get your cya down to around 70. Your pool is not manageable at 100 plus cya.
As far as a specific swg if you have automation consider staying with that manufacturer for compatibility. If automation is not a factor there are a lot of choices. Many brands require professional installs for a full warranty. For that reason Circupool has become popular as they do not specify pro install for full warranty. The cell should be sized for at least twice the capacity of your pool. Cell ratings are based on 24 hour operation; an oversized cell allows the pump to run less and therefore the cell will last longer.
A salt test kit, Taylor K1766 should be ordered in advance so you can measure the pool salt level before adding any salt as all pools will have some salt already.
We recommend controlling a swg with a timer as the flow switch can stick and allow swg operation without the pump running. Some pumps allow connections to other devices such as swg to control an auxiliary device to run when the pump is on.
 
Thanks for the reply Hootz. Looks like you have the Circupool RJ+60 for your 24k gallon pool. Mine is 27k gallon, do you think the RJ+60 is the way to go, or could I do the RJ+45?

Did you end up switching to Saltwater or did you start with it? If you switched, any recommendations for me to consider?

And lastly, my pump is a Hayward Super Pump VS (SP2603VSP). I'm not sure if I can add in the SWG to be controlled on the timer there or not, still researching. If not, I think I would need a separate timer installed. Do you have a similar setup with a timer outside of your pump that you are using?
 
For 27000 gallons I would go with the rj60+. Based on a 10 hour run time an rj45 would run at about 80% to deliver 3 ppm chlorine while the rj60 would require about 50%. I switched to saltwater last year so this is my second season. I converted to a vs pump the previous year so I already had a timer for the previous pump. I use the same breaker for pump and swg; the vs pump wiring is connected to the breaker side of the timer (line) and the swg is connected to the load side of the timer. I set the timer to come on 15 minutes after the pump starts and 15 minutes before pump shut off. I have a Tork mechanical timer and do not recommend it. Tork uses a crazy off sequence; the off tripper on the timer wheel binds with the lugs and can bind the clock to prevent operation. Intermatic would be my choice next time.
There is little if any cost saving with a swg; some say it is break even. My decision was based on convenience; no more lugging chlorine bottles. The biggest advantage is with swg a pool can be self sufficient for a week or so. No more worries when leaving for vacation. I quickly looked at the manual for your pump to determine if it could control your swg. There is some information on input controls to run the pump with external controls but I see no information on outputs to control auxiliary devices.
 
Really helpful information! I just did the diluted CYA test and it looks like I'm between 100 and 120. So good news is it's not crazy high, but still very high for being able to maintain with liquid chlorine.

Thanks for looking in to my pump a bit, sounds like I should look in to a timer. So you still use the timer on your pump and then just use the timer for the SWG right?

If I'm to make this switch, here are the steps I'm thinking I need to take. Does this sound right?
1. Drain / refill pool to get CYA to 70
2. Measure salt and add salt to get to 3500ppm
3. Install SWG
4. Install Timer for SWG
5. Remove chlorinator

Do you have a back flow valve between your SWG and filter / heater?
 
I don`t use the timer to turn off and on my pump, the wiring comes through the same box so it is connected to the wires from the breaker (line side lugs) at the timer for constant feed. I only use the timer for the swg since the pump has a built in timer. There is no need for a check valve with swg. Once the swg turns off there is no residual so there is no chlorine to backflow; chlorinators keep residual tabs and water and without a check valve super chlorinated water seeps back.
 
Also worth looking into, is running low RPM on the pump 24/7. Often times just a few hours a day at high speed costs more than a constant slow trickle . If the electric costs work in your favor, the added filtration and constant adding of FC make maintenance that much easier. I could get away with running low rpm half the time for around $10 a month. I splurge the other $10 and leave it on.
 
Also Hootz - do you have have 240v timer? Curious to know which I should get, 120v or 240v. There is 240v running to a panel by the pool equipment. In that panel is a 240v breaker for the VS pump. There is also a 120v breaker an outlet plug that that I use for my heater (needed for the display)

Also if you could send me a picture of your wiring setup that would be great. Not exactly following what you described above for how to wire it.
 
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jandersen13 said:
Really helpful information! I just did the diluted CYA test and it looks like I'm between 100 and 120. So good news is it's not crazy high, but still very high for being able to maintain with liquid chlorine.

Thanks for looking in to my pump a bit, sounds like I should look in to a timer. So you still use the timer on your pump and then just use the timer for the SWG right?

If I'm to make this switch, here are the steps I'm thinking I need to take. Does this sound right?
1. Drain / refill pool to get CYA to 70
2. Measure salt and add salt to get to 3500ppm
3. Install SWG
4. Install Timer for SWG
5. Remove chlorinator

Do you have a back flow valve between your SWG and filter / heater?
Click to expand...

This is all really good advice.... but I did manage to run my pool for a year at 140 CYA. If I had needed to SLAM, I would've been screwed, but simply keeping the FC high enough with liquid was doable since my daily loss wasn't very big.
That was last year. This year I did the drain/refill, redo plumbing (adding SWG, remove chlorinator, change to VS pump), balance, add salt.
Drain refill worked... though I over-diluted so then I had to actually use some Trichlor tabs that I still had to add more CYA.
I had a 240V Timer left over from my single speed pump, so I put my SWG (RJ60+) on that.
I currently just have the VS pump running at 2000 RPM 24/7, but this is silly since I have an Autocover that keeps stuff out of the pool most of the day (and especially at night).
I have the timer only keeping the SWG on 12 hours since I have it down at 15% anyway.
 
jandersen13 said:
Really helpful information! I just did the diluted CYA test and it looks like I'm between 100 and 120. So good news is it's not crazy high, but still very high for being able to maintain with liquid chlorine.

Thanks for looking in to my pump a bit, sounds like I should look in to a timer. So you still use the timer on your pump and then just use the timer for the SWG right?

If I'm to make this switch, here are the steps I'm thinking I need to take. Does this sound right?
1. Drain / refill pool to get CYA to 70
2. Measure salt and add salt to get to 3500ppm
3. Install SWG
4. Install Timer for SWG
5. Remove chlorinator

Do you have a back flow valve between your SWG and filter / heater?
Click to expand...
Depending on your layout you may be able to put the SWG where the chlorinator and check valve are. With a SWG you will not need either. The check valve was required to keep the acid from the Chlorinator backing up into the heater. A SWG does not create that residual acid in the line.
 
jandersen13 said:
Newdude - are you suggesting to do this with a SWG? Or do you mean with my current setup?
Click to expand...
You could do it now too if you liked the look of running water (we do) but i meant with the SWG. Instead of dialing it in to run 100% for 8 hours, or whatever it needs, you can run 40% 24/7. Some people adjust their runtime and output tnroughout the season, i only adjust the output. It doesn't save me a ton of math, but it is easier.

Its like there is a sub culture of SWG people. Then there is a sub sub culture of 24/7 people.
 
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How is your pump currently wired? Is it straight from a breaker? I would expect it to come from a breaker in a box, leaving the box in a conduit to your pump. If that is the case you have some choices. If you have space in your box for another breaker you can run a new circuit for your swg and not have to bother the pump circuit. You could power this ckt 120 or 240, the Circupool Rj swg will run on either. Your pump is 240v so you as an alternative cut the conduit to your pump and add the timer box. The pump circuit would be cut through, not using the timer and keeping a constant feed from the breaker. The swg would be attached to the timer circuit, allowing the swg to be turned on and off with the timer. The timer has lugs that the wires are attached to. They are referred to as "line" and "load". Line refers to feed from the box through the breaker. Load refers to the device controlled by the timer. Since you would be sharing the breaker for the pump and swg, but do not want this timer to control the pump, the wires from the breaker and wires powering the pump would be attached to the line lugs ( 1 and 3 in the attached diagram Intermatic T104)
fyi..... make sure when you order your timer it is in a weatherproof box....most of them are for interior use only.

t104-wiring-diagram.jpg
 
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Thanks @Hootz and @-MacGyver-

Now you have me thinking more Hootz. I wasn't thinking clearly, and probably can just add another breaker to the panel right? Attached is my panel with the plate taken off so you can see. The pump is on the right and the outlet is on the left. I can put in a new breaker (double) like the pump and run that through a new hole cutout and conduit to the timer, wire as normal, and then run the SWG to the timer, right?
 

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You don't necessarily have to add another breaker unless you want to keep the circuits separate. An SWG doesn't pull that much amperage so you could put it on the outlet breaker if you go 120v. Then you would run your line to another box that would contain your timer.

My pool sub panel enclosure had the timers built in, but you need to make sure you get the timer with the box.
 
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