TFPC Recommended level vs manufacturer level

[nodiaque]

Hello everyone,

I have a Fibro Fiberglass pool that have roughly 30 000 liters of water using a salt chlorinator. When I loaded the information in the PoolMath app, I get the following recommended level:

• FC: 1.0 - 3.0
• pH: 7.2 - 8.0
• TA: 50 - 90
• Hardness: 250 - 650
• Cyanuric Acid: 60 - 90

When Fibro sold me the pool, they gave me maintenance guide which says to keep the water in these levels:

• FC: 0.6 - 1.5 ppm
• pH: 7.4 - 7.6
• TA: 80 - 120ppm
• Hardness: 80 - 240
• CYA: ~60 ppm

Looking at these number, it seems beside pH, all number don't really follow TFPC recommended level.
FC start lower and end in the middle of the recommended, TA start at nearly the maximum of TFPC and end way higher. As for hardness, it's the total opposite not even reaching the recommended level. At least CYA seems to be consistent.

So I'm wondering, who do I follow? I never had trouble with my pool to be honest. I normally do the red and yellow test for ph and chlorine, once a month the salt level and for the first month when opening the pool, I go do a pool chemistry test at my local pool shop which use exactly the TFPC kit and give me the result. Only thing I bought from them in the past was either chlorine, something for ph, calcium for hardness and that's about it.

Trying on my own now with TFPC and I'm unsure which number to target for, manufacturer or TFPC.

Thank you

 

[Newdude]

Hey nodiaque and Welcome !!!!

Manufacturers often follow the industry methods/recommendations that are impossible quests, like the above.

The sun burns off up to 4ppm FC daily in the peak season. (Maybe 3 for you way up north). For you to 'maintain' a .6 to 1.5 FC, you'd be adding Fevery 2 hours, everyday.

How. How would that be reasonably possible ? They don't even know what they don't even know. Nor do they care.

They believe that chlorine is more effective as a mid 7 Ph, which is true for the drinking water used in the studies they point to. Pools have CYA / stabilizer which changes the science, but again, they don't know or care.

They rec a higher TA to help overcome the constant drop from heavy tab/puck use. This one makes sense when using their method, but the downside is that pucks jack your CYA or CH.

 

[nodiaque]

Ah, ok, so I go the TFPC then I guess. I do live north, in Quebec. Right now, pool is 47F so salt chlorinator doesn't work. I'll go buy some chlorine to put in. I do have puck with stab in it, should be a good idea to raise some of these? Since I already have them on hand. We normally close the pool for winter with some puck in it so it discharge during winter. Right now, my dispenser are empty.

 

[Newdude]

I do have puck with stab in it, should be a good idea to raise some of these?

Pucks are fine if your CYA can handle the boost. It's their blind use (pushed by the industry) that we recommend against.

If you know what the level is and what an add will do, (for any parameter) then it's all controlled.

Make sure it doesn't say blue or Xtra blue anywhere on the package. That's industry code for copper

 

[nodiaque]

Right now I just opened my pool, everything is bad. I used to buy the chlorine opening pack that come with chlorine and some other stuff.
I did use a very bad test, I have a test strip that test everything and the red/yellow test kit. I'll get my hand on a better kit but for now, it's better than nothing.
FC = 0
pH = 6.2
TA = 0
CH = 220
CYA = 0
SALT = 1790

So for chlorine, I'll add the puck but I think I also have some granular chlorine left that I'll add to boost it up.
pH, I used to add some baking soda from arm and hammer.
Alka, I'll have to go buy some at my pool supply since I'm out
CH: I'm amaze I still have that many. I don't have anymore calcium granule so I'll probably go buy some too
CYA: Since my chlorine tab have stabilizer in it, shouldn't that raise this also?

 

[Newdude]

pH, I used to add some baking soda from arm and hammer

Baking soda is for TA.

Borax is for PH. 20 mule team Borax should be dirt cheap in the laundry aisle of the supermarket.

CH: I'm amaze I still have that many. I don't have anymore calcium granule so I'll probably go buy some too

How old is the pool ? Modern fiberglass doesn't need calcium. (With no waterline tiles / grout).

200 is plenty otherwise.

CYA: Since my chlorine tab have stabilizer in it, shouldn't that raise this also?

Each 8 oz tab raises CYA 4.2 for you. It's slow to raise it when you want it quickly, but quickly becomes unmanageable when used as a primary source of FC.

Download PoolMath. It'll give you all these answers. I'm WAY too lazy to maths all this. Lol.

 

[pjt]

FC: 1.0 - 3.0

Those numbers are wrong. Follow the FC/CYA chart for SWCGs and keep your FC at or above target. Don't let FC touch the minimum.

I have a test strip that test everything and the red/yellow test kit. I'll get my hand on a better kit but for now, it's better than nothing.

You need a proper test kit. Otherwise, you're flying blind.

 

[nodiaque]

Baking soda is for TA.

Borax is for PH. 20 mule team Borax should be dirt cheap in the laundry aisle of the supermarket.

How old is the pool ? Modern fiberglass doesn't need calcium. (With no waterline tiles / grout).

200 is plenty otherwise.

Each 8 oz tab raises CYA 4.2 for you. It's slow to raise it when you want it quickly, but quickly becomes unmanageable when used as a primary source of FC.

Download PoolMath. It'll give you all these answers. I'm WAY too lazy to maths all this. Lol.

I used pool math, this is where I got all the numbers from in the first post.

My tabs are these: TRICHLORO TAB 6KG - Stabilized chlorination tablets 200 g

Pool is about 3 years old, installed in 2021.

I'll check for Borax if we have that in Quebec.

Tab is not the primary source, I only use it when the pool is cold like right now and the salt chlorinator is not working.

 

[nodiaque]

Those numbers are wrong. Follow the FC/CYA chart for SWCGs and keep your FC at or above target. Don't let FC touch the minimum.

View attachment 563827




You need a proper test kit. Otherwise, you're flying blind.

Those number are from PoolMath apps. I just opened the pool from a 6 months sleep so it's normal the CH is null, even with the 6 chlore tab I had. Reason why it's giving me 1 to 3 is because CYA = 0

edit: I forgot that the pool right now have crystal clear water, no algea. I do have to do a vacuum for the little insects that got into it from the winter but aside of that, it's as clean as when I closed it in september

 

[Newdude]

Those number are from PoolMath apps.

You had 0 CYA, so the 1 to 3 FC rec is valid. Sorry. That piece of the puzzle was missing in the first post.


At 30 CYA, it's 2 to 6 with 2 not recommended, but as the bare minimum value. You never want to dance near min. If you're losing 4 ppm per day mid season, you need to dose over target to achieve that.

I forgot that the pool right now have crystal clear water, no algea

That's a great start but meaningless for proving literal microscopic algae. You can only see it once it's a runaway train.

Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. If you lose FC overnight with no UV, then something is brewing. It's a needed step every spring. If there was something brewing, a clear and cold water
SLAM Process usually goes real quick.

 

[nodiaque]

Oh sure, I'm going to raise CH and everything for sure. Like I said, I just opened so it's the way the water is right now. Instead of going to my pool supplier buying an opening kit than having it test (although they use the same kit as recommended here), I though of going the poolmath way. Honestly, last year, it cost me less than 100$ opening and using the pool for the year (except for the salt I had to add).

Normally, I have my solar cover on it when I'm not using it, which keep the CH very high. When I open it, I lose nearly all of it during the day in the summer. I have a hard time putting my salt chlorinator at the right level because of that. Sometime it's at 25% and not enough, then I put 28% and I'm topping the chart. Let's hope poolmath help this year. I'm currently looking for one of those good test kit.

 

[Newdude]

I'm going to raise CH and everything for sure.

CL ? Chlorine ? CH is calcium hardness. Just wanted to point it out for anyone following along. Lol.

Sometime it's at 25% and not enough, then I put 28% and I'm topping the chart.

You are safe to swim up to 40% of your CYA level. (SLAM level). 50 CYA is probably plenty for you up north, so 20 FC is your max. At 70 CYA, our typical SWG level, it's 28 FC. Check the chart posted above.

You can lose your mind micromanagement it. A couple ppm 'high', but still *totally* safe with 10 more FC to go means you will have stupid clear water.

 

[nodiaque]

Funny thing, I just went to check my salt recommendation on my aquarite chlorinator and saw there is a chart, which is again different from maker but different from TFPC but closer.
CL: 1-3
pH - 7.2-7.6
Alka: 80-120
CYA: 20-30 (seems very low)
Calcium: 125-250
salt: 2700-3400

Yeah sorry, CH for chlorine XD CL. Right now I have a tab in it but I'm going to get some granule salt at walmart. I'll get some borax while I'm there, pool salt (should I wait for the pool to be higher in temp before putting salt since I'm not using my salt chlorinator until at least 60F which will probably be in 2 month?), some baking soda (app says 4.2 kg!) and with some luck, they have some calcium

 

[Newdude]

Salt can be added at any time.

Your TA is likely not 0.

Your CH is fine at 220.

Do not add anything without reliable test results from a drop based test kit. Especially especially do not use an 'opening kit'. Your pool needed what your pool needs, not one size fits all in a box for $39.99.

 

[nodiaque]

I'll go have my water tested at my pool place where they used the same testing as sold here. The testing kit cost 250$ for me that's a hefty pricing.

I currently have drop test for ph and CL, at least.

I still go buy some stuff at Walmart, will be already stocked.

 

[Bperry]

I'll go have my water tested at my pool place where they used the same testing as sold here. The testing kit cost 250$ for me that's a hefty pricing.

I currently have drop test for ph and CL, at least.

I still go buy some stuff at Walmart, will be already stocked.

The paper test strips are worse than nothing. Ie Bad data is worse than no data.

 

[nodiaque]

The paper test strips are worse than nothing. Ie Bad data is worse than no data.

Yeah I understand that. That's why I take my CL and pH from my red and yellow drop bottle.

At my pool store, they have the exact kit the tf-100 pro. I've seen them used it to test my water for the past 2 years and I was wondering what it was. Looking at the recommended kit here and the video on how to use it, that's when I identified that they are using the kit with all of the accessories. So I'll have them test it and gave me the number.

In the past, the place I was going had a machine doing the calculation. It was taking my water, put them in 6 vials and feed it to the machine that tested and gave me the exact number with digital probs and such. Unfortunately, this place closed down during covid (big chain but they had too many small store and merge into a bigger one).

 

[Bperry]

Yeah I understand that. That's why I take my CL and pH from my red and yellow drop bottle.

At my pool store, they have the exact kit the tf-100 pro. I've seen them used it to test my water for the past 2 years and I was wondering what it was. Looking at the recommended kit here and the video on how to use it, that's when I identified that they are using the kit with all of the accessories. So I'll have them test it and gave me the number.

In the past, the place I was going had a machine doing the calculation. It was taking my water, put them in 6 vials and feed it to the machine that tested and gave me the exact number with digital probs and such. Unfortunately, this place closed down during covid (big chain but they had too many small store and merge into a bigger one).

Are you sure they have a TF-100 pro? That wouls be the first ever report of a store using one. Are you sure its not another model? The FC test uses a powder in the sample if its a FAS-DPD test.

The fancy machine in that closed store was just as bad as the paper strips. Look through all the threads on the site to get an idea of how bad they are.

 

[nodiaque]

Ah, didn't knew for the machine. It seemed quite reliable, but not like I'm an expert.

As for the testing kit, I cannot say the name is the same cause I didn't check for the name. But they have all the same drop, same testing tube, mixer, color chart, etc. I remember them putting exactly the same quantity of drop for each test as in the video with bottle matching the colors and name. I'll know later today when I'll go. Honestly, in the last 3 years, there testing always gave me a perfect pool so it can't be that bad. And the number of time I walked out of there with nothing cause my level where correct or just telling me change the dial on the salt chlorinator, I don't feel like he's trying to sell me stuff.

 

[Newdude]

And the number of time I walked out of there with nothing cause my level where correct or just telling me change the dial on the salt chlorinator, I don't feel like he's trying to sell me stuff.

My mom and pop store was good like that. They were not out to get me in any regard and honestly were trying to be helpful to make loyal customers. But their complete ignorance on pool chemistry was in fact out to get me. Lol.