Tarp Method to Clear a Swamp

[crepemaster3000]

Good evening all. I'm moving into a house with a pool in the next couple days. Shortly after that, I'll have a friend helping me move, and I would love if the pool could be ready by then. I'm worried about starting out with a swamp, since the last time I was there it was on it's way there.

I was thinking about how some people have used the tarp method to handle cya in one go. What do y'all think of the following, assuming cya isn't too outrageous to start things off.

Modify a return (or returns) to have a split, with valve(s) that turn on/off. One roadway is normal return pipe. The other is one that you can connect something to, like a hose. Go up to slam level at night. Place a tarp over and proceed as if doing the tarp method by closing off the return valves, and rather than let the water enter like normal, fill the pool on top of the tarp like the 'tarp method' by running through the filter so that the water that goes on top of the tarp is filtered water from the pool. Then remove tarp after it goes down just like the tarp method for cya.

My thinking is that this could drastically reduce swamp clearing time, same as cya tarp method. The reason for this is during a regular slam you are constantly only pulling in a diluted portion of the swamp. That is, what is left of the swamp, mixed with what you have already filtered. With the traditional way of doing things, it is in some sense, a constantly updating version of the multiple drains to fix cya issues.

The obvious potential benefit is decreasing the SLAM time, while allowing one to not replace the water. The potential negatives are that it is negligably effective.

What do y'all think?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Its not filtering that the swamp needs most, its chlorine! Lots and lots of bleach. And the high chlorinated water needs to be in contact with all the pool surfaces and filter and plumbing at the same time to kill algae which takes time and yet *more* bleach.

So, that said, I don't even get what your idea is proposing. Sounds like a lot of trouble for not so much accomplishment? Unless I'm missing something here......?

Maddie

 

[needsajet]

I think your objective is to get the cloudy water to the filter faster. I'd call it an experiment and would love to know how it works out, but Maddie is dead on... you need to kill the algae first. Chlorine kills algae. Brushing will help the chlorine get to all the algae. Then the filter will remove the dead algae 'carcasses' so that would be the time to try the tarp experiment to send the cloudy water to the filter faster. I wouldn't bet money either way, but it might be disappointing because a lot of the really fine dust goes round and round until it's eventually caught, but ya never know and I love an experiment! What sort of filter do you have? How big is the pool?

If ya do it, just make sure the tarp doesn't suck onto any intake and starve the pump.

 

[crepemaster3000]

Its not filtering that the swamp needs most, its chlorine! Lots and lots of bleach. And the high chlorinated water needs to be in contact with all the pool surfaces and filter and plumbing at the same time to kill algae which takes time and yet *more* bleach.

So, that said, I don't even get what your idea is proposing. Sounds like a lot of trouble for not so much accomplishment? Unless I'm missing something here......?

Maddie

I guess what I'm saying is get up to circulated slam levels, and then do the method.

I've just seen numerous threads where they are debating a refill because things are going a bit awry. What if the answer is to do a bit of both, while not having to actually pay to replace the water.

- - - Updated - - -

I think your objective is to get the cloudy water to the filter faster. I'd call it an experiment and would love to know how it works out, but Maddie is dead on... you need to kill the algae first. Chlorine kills algae. Brushing will help the chlorine get to all the algae. Then the filter will remove the dead algae 'carcasses' so that would be the time to try the tarp experiment to send the cloudy water to the filter faster. I wouldn't bet money either way, but it might be disappointing because a lot of the really fine dust goes round and round until it's eventually caught, but ya never know and I love an experiment! What sort of filter do you have? How big is the pool?

If ya do it, just make sure the tarp doesn't suck onto any intake and starve the pump.

Out of curiosity, why can't the filter handle 'live' algae.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Out of curiosity, why can't the filter handle 'live' algae.

Because live algae sitting in a filter will just continue to reproduce in said filter. Then get carried along back in to the pool water. Filters don't kill algae. Chlorine kills algae.

 

[domct203]

As mentioned, the only sanitizer in the pool is chlorine. A filter is to simply remove visible debris, it does not sanitize the water.

And while some of the algae spores may get trapped in the filter, most of them, as well as any bacteria/virus that are now growing in the unsanitary water are microscopic and will simply pass through the filter anyway.

 

[needsajet]

You'll need to follow the SLAM Process method at least until a successful Overnight Chlorine Loss Test before experimenting with the tarp. Then you can test whether or not the filter can clear the water quicker with the aid of the tarp. You need to be able to get at the pool to brush it, until the algae is all dead.

 

[Donldson]

The premise of your idea is based on the idea that water coming out of the return is clean and clear. It is not. It is cleaner and clearer, but filters do not catch everything in one single go, and they cannot filter out algae faster than algae can reproduce. The reason SLAMing takes time is not because water isn't being filtered enough, it is because it takes time for chlorine to kill the massive amounts of algae that is in a green pool. Heck, often when trying to clear a green pool I will put the system on recirculate for the first day or two since I don't want the filter clogging up with dead algae and reducing flow. I want maximum circulation to make sure the chlorine gets in to every nook and cranny and kills as much of the algae as possible. Then I can worry about removing the dead stuff. Algae is a chemistry problem, not a filtration one.

On top of that, the tarp method for CYA reduction isn't even universally supported on the site to begin with. Yes, it has been done successfully, but only a couple of times. It is a pain to do correctly, there are some very real concerns about it causing trouble with the equipment (what will you do if it gets stuck your main drain?), and is only seriously considered in situations where a near 100% water change is required.

 

[Swampwoman]

I'm worried about starting out with a swamp, since the last time I was there it was on it's way there.

Tell us a bit more about the pool. Inground or aboveground? Left open/foreclosed a long time, or normal humans in the house before? Debris on the bottom, or just algae? (I wouldn't support what you suggest for reasons above, but have seen the "normal" tarp method work well for some.)

Since you know you're going to want to filter faster, check out The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. -- attach same to a return...it will shorten your clarity time provided you follow SLAM Process protocol to a T.

TFP is based on [fc/cya][/FC/cya] and you will need a FAD/DPD kit to use TFP methods, available at TFTestkits.net.

Just making sure you're armed with the right ammo

Congrats on your new home and we me to TFP.

 

[crepemaster3000]

Tell us a bit more about the pool. Inground or aboveground? Left open/foreclosed a long time, or normal humans in the house before? Debris on the bottom, or just algae? (I wouldn't support what you suggest for reasons above, but have seen the "normal" tarp method work well for some.)

Since you know you're going to want to filter faster, check out The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. -- attach same to a return...it will shorten your clarity time provided you follow SLAM Process protocol to a T.

TFP is based on [fc/cya][/FC/cya] and you will need a FAD/DPD kit to use TFP methods, available at TFTestkits.net.

Just making sure you're armed with the right ammo

Congrats on your new home and we me to TFP.

It's an inground pool with a vinyl liner and sand filter, with an inline tab chlorinator that I will not be using (worried where cya is gonna start out). I would say that the pool is a smaller regular sized pool with a deep end. I'll be able to get gallons and update my signature when we go look tomorrow.

I went to the house one day to ensure that they fixed/replaced the pool pump. The volute was cracked, with water leaking. While I was there I noticed that they had something that I think was called a 'pool saver' hooked up to a hose and sitting in the pool, off the side. The pool was green and hard to make out the bottom, but I don't think there was any big debris.

To check the pump, I tried to turn it on, and it came on, but nothing came out of the returns. I wasn't really thinking or troubleshooting at the time, and just turned it off.

My concern is that it will be worse by the time I get to it, and so was trying to think of ways to reduce SLAM times.

I really like the sound of that slime bag.

I'm planning on making a new thread when I get my first test results (purchasing a kit tonight). I don't have to go back to work until around the 17th, so I'm going to be able to be freakishly diligent with the SLAM process.

 

[needsajet]

That's great to hear because being diligent on a SLAM is absolutely the best way to speed it up. Starting at a pH of 7.2 is also helpful. Just backing up what swampwoman said, be sure to follow the written SLAM instructions to the letter. There's also a video which gives a visual idea of how to do it, but the written instructions are the best resource.

Just thinking about a somewhat neglected pool, you could consider a couple things about the filter as well. At the beginning of your SLAM, or first things first, you could deep-clean the filter to be sure it's in good shape (I'll post a link below).

Then after the worst of the cloudiness is gone, but it's still a bit cloudy, you can add a bit of diatomaceous earth (DE) to the sand filter. I'll post that method as well. Be sure to buy DE made for pool filters, not the food grade or gardening grade.
Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter
Along with swamwoman's suggestions, those two things will also do more than trying to selectively filter the water using the tarp method. (as much as I'd love to see that tried!)

If it was mine and I knew nothing about it, I would take a sample to a pool $tore and get it tested for copper and iron, just in case.

 

[kcindc]

I'm planning on making a new thread when I get my first test results (purchasing a kit tonight). I don't have to go back to work until around the 17th, so I'm going to be able to be freakishly diligent with the SLAM process.

We recommend two kits, the TF-100 (http://www.tftestkits.net) and Taylor K-2006C. I strongly suggest the TF-100 with the XL option. You will need more FC tests for a SLAM and the XL option will ensure you have enough to complete the SLAM. Here is a comparison of kits: Pool School - Test Kits Compared

If you can find the Taylor K-2006C (do not get the Taylor K-2006 as is doesn't have enough tests), great, but I suggest that you go ahead and order more FC testing reagents as you will run out of the them pretty quickly.

 

[Teald024]

My thinking is that this could drastically reduce swamp clearing time, same as cya tarp method. The reason for this is during a regular slam you are constantly only pulling in a diluted portion of the swamp. That is, what is left of the swamp, mixed with what you have already filtered. With the traditional way of doing things, it is in some sense, a constantly updating version of the multiple drains to fix cya issues.

The obvious potential benefit is decreasing the SLAM time, while allowing one to not replace the water. The potential negatives are that it is negligably effective.

What do y'all think?

I would like to note that the filter can not remove any CYA from the water. Only taking CYA laden water out of the pool and replacing it with CYA-free water will reduce the CYA. CYA is not part of tap water we drink. CYA comes from trichlor tabs, dichlor powder, and CYA powder/liquid (stabilizer).