Suction and return lines

[joshuaj1975]

So I have my vacuum hooked up to my only skimmer directly into the suction line. I think I should get a skimmer/vacuum basket combo so my skimmer catches debris floating…? When my pump is running I have my valve from the pool sucking as much as it can before the psi. Drops on the filter and the rest sucks from the spa. I feel like I am pulling more water from the spa and not filtering as much from the pool which I would think would be overkill to keep filtering the spa water let’s say a guess of 40% pool and 60% spa filtering. I could remove the vacuum and have the diverted that goes in the skimmer suck from the main drain a lot more and have the skimmer be more effective, but lose the vacuum for all the debris from storms, dust blowing, etc.

As far as the returns, I have 2 in the pool and 2 in the spa. I have it return to the pool as much as possible before the psi. Goes up and the rest returned to the spa.

From the picture you can see in floor cleaning, but I don’t use them unless heating the pool.

Question-
Any advise is appreciated

Should I use the infloor as returns (they are worn out and provide no action in moving debris around on the floor)? But could return more water to pool with out having psi. Increase.


On the return jets, what is the best position-up, down, toward skimmer,away from skimmer?

Thanks

 

[needsajet]

Should I use the infloor as returns (they are worn out and provide no action in moving debris around on the floor)? But could return more water to pool with out having psi. Increase.


On the return jets, what is the best position-up, down, toward skimmer,away from skimmer?

Yours is such an interesting question/opportunity/challenge, I'm going to call up some experts! @JamesW @mas985 @cowboycasey

EDIT: note that this thread has diverged toward focus on how to connect the cleaner. I called you experts regarding OP's desire to re-purpose in-floor cleaning jets as intakes

I'd love a project like this. My first question would be if you're sure of the integrity of the in-floor piping, but there's no reason I can think of to suppose that it's not OK, if it has been working (at least moving water under pressure, I don't mean performing it's original intended function). If I saw it go in, and it was normal hardwall PVC pipe, I likely wouldn't worry at all. Regulations on intakes would have to be adhered to for safety reasons. I believe you would have to design so that it's impossible for any single intake to be satisfying the pump. You would need to use specialized covers for the intakes, that spread out the suction force across a grate.

On the second aspect, it's a "play with it and find out" sorta thing, remembering that tumbling the pool water is job one on sanitation. While adjusting, I watch the debris on the pool for a few minutes at a time, several times, across a few weeks and even the season. Some people chuck in a few floating objects, but be careful in your thinking about wind, because your water tumbling pattern is only one aspect of skimming, with wind being the stronger force a lot of the time. For me, on average, I find slightly up and pointed toward the skimmer, but it's kind of a brute force approach because I get a lot of leaves. I've tried pointing toward the corners, but it never fully cleans them out anyway. I reserve one return for downward because I have no main drain, doing that for water circulation.

 

[Tcadwall0]

It might help to show some pictures of your equipment pad. You may be able to adjust flow so that when you are vacuuming you have more suction on the skimmer. If you want to reduce the junk that goes to the filter, you can do an inline canister with a sock in the basket. I do this when I am not using my battery powered vac. It will catch the dog hair / fine debris before going to filter. I could be mis-reading your question though. I can add some more info if I am on the track you are going, but you did put a lot out there at once.

 

[joshuaj1975]

Yours is such an interesting question/opportunity/challenge, I'm going to call up some experts! @JamesW @mas985 @cowboycasey

I'd love a project like this. My first question would be if you're sure of the integrity of the in-floor piping, but there's no reason I can think of to suppose that it's not OK, if it has been working (at least moving water under pressure, I don't mean performing it's original intended function). If I saw it go in, and it was normal hardwall PVC pipe, I likely wouldn't worry at all. Regulations on intakes would have to be adhered to for safety reasons. I believe you would have to design so that it's impossible for any single intake to be satisfying the pump. You would need to use specialized covers for the intakes, that spread out the suction force across a grate.

On the second aspect, it's a "play with it and find out" sorta thing, remembering that tumbling the pool water is job one on sanitation. While adjusting, I watch the debris on the pool for a few minutes at a time, several times, across a few weeks and even the season. Some people chuck in a few floating objects, but be careful in your thinking about wind, because your water tumbling pattern is only one aspect of skimming, with wind being the stronger force a lot of the time. For me, on average, I find slightly up and pointed toward the skimmer, but it's kind of a brute force approach because I get a lot of leaves. I've tried pointing toward the corners, but it never fully cleans them out anyway. I reserve one return for downward because I have no main drain, doing that for water circulation.

By worn out I mean the pop ups are worn , I could remove and replace the insert(pop up) but they are brittle and don’t want to cause a bigger problem (there’s one on my first step that the threads have been twisted out of so I can’t replace the pop up for that and with out jackhammering out the step to replace the pop up fitting) I use a marine plug to block it when I do heat the pool so I don’t lose all the psi. At that port (Need a better fix for that to look better) I don’t think I’m worried about the psi going through them or pipes.

Yeah I do up and towards the skimmer.

 

[joshuaj1975]

It might help to show some pictures of your equipment pad. You may be able to adjust flow so that when you are vacuuming you have more suction on the skimmer. If you want to reduce the junk that goes to the filter, you can do an inline canister with a sock in the basket. I do this when I am not using my battery powered vac. It will catch the dog hair / fine debris before going to filter. I could be mis-reading your question though. I can add some more info if I am on the track you are going, but you did put a lot out there at once.

I can not adjust suction from skimmer to vac as they pull from the same port. When the vac isn’t hooked up I put in the puck thing that goes into the bottom of the skimmer and adjust the slide depending how much I want to suck from the main drain as apposed to the top of the skimmer basket. At the equiptment j can only adjust how much I pull from the pool and spa. If I go full spa it’s psi stays the same, if I go full pull at the pool side psi. Is unchanged as well (vac not hooked up). Only so much water can be sucked through the vac before the psi drops in the filter cause it’s not supplying as much water as it would with no restriction (no vac).
I use an inline basket on my vac hose.

Also have a filter basket before the pump that I will occasionally put a sock in.

Yeah I word vomited a little!

 

[Tcadwall0]

You started the post with

So I have my vacuum hooked up to my only skimmer directly into the suction line.

To me, that means that you remove your skimmer basket and feed your vac hose directly into the port at the bottom of the skimmer (no skimmer plate).

I could not find a skimmer plate to fit my skimmer, so that is what I do. I ordered the below item on amazon as an inline 'filter' to reduce the dirt going to my filter.

https://a.co/jkohH4P

From the rest of your response, I would expect some pressure drop due to the resistance of the hose length being added when you adjust the suction to pool only, due to the added length of suction. But for a short period of time (for argument's sake 30 min), I would think it would not be too hard on the pump to have some added load so that you would have sufficient suction on the vac.

I do that regularly with my 1.5 hp vs pump at over 3k rpm. Now, if you have a 3hp pump and all water is going through a vac hose at high speed.... that is likely a bit more risky. But from your signature and not seeing equipment pad, that is unknown.

 

[joshuaj1975]

You started the post with

To me, that means that you remove your skimmer basket and feed your vac hose directly into the port at the bottom of the skimmer (no skimmer plate).

I could not find a skimmer plate to fit my skimmer, so that is what I do. I ordered the below item on amazon as an inline 'filter' to reduce the dirt going to my filter.

https://a.co/jkohH4P

From the rest of your response, I would expect some pressure drop due to the resistance of the hose length being added when you adjust the suction to pool only, due to the added length of suction. But for a short period of time (for argument's sake 30 min), I would think it would not be too hard on the pump to have some added load so that you would have sufficient suction on the vac.

I do that regularly with my 1.5 hp vs pump at over 3k rpm. Now, if you have a 3hp pump and all water is going through a vac hose at high speed.... that is likely a bit more risky. But from your signature and not seeing equipment pad, that is unknown.

Yes I remove basket and put hose straight into port. I use that exact same online filter. So yes pump (1.5hp) struggles that way with pool only. Now (and why I posted-to get ideas) I have forgotten about skimmer vac plates. It seams I could use that and still get suction from main drain so I can filter pool water more. Most likely get more debris through the main drain to the pump filter basket, but maybe not as nothing is moving around the bottom except the vac and it would get most debris (and into inline basket) and let the main drain just pull water to help filter the most. My hose that goes into port has some adjustable springs to work the relief flap which helps draw debris into the skimmer basket which I kind of wedge in there to block debris from going down the relief valve and into pump filter basket. I’m thinking of one of these

https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-R211100-Vac-Mate-Cleaner-Dispenser/dp/B004MCH1SG/ref=asc_df_B004MCH1SG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198092864586&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4804220363800951210&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030031&hvtargid=pla-348631666950&psc=1

but not sure it would accomplish what I’m trying to do…….

See pics

 

[joshuaj1975]

I wonder if using my plate to adjust how much suction comes from the main drain and the skimmer basket so I can suck the volume of water from the pool that the pump would be happy with but not sure if you can adjust the pentair skimmer basket combo between vac port and skimmer side…?

https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-R211100-Vac-Mate-Cleaner-Dispenser/dp/B004MCH1SG/ref=asc_df_B004MCH1SG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198092864586&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4804220363800951210&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030031&hvtargid=pla-348631666950&psc=1