Steel pool walls not level, is this a proper fix?

[JY2024]

Our pool build was just completed and as soon as it was filled with water, we noticed that there was a low corner at deep end. At time of fill it measured one inch lower than the other 3 corners. It also happens to be the side that our Hayward Autoskim is located, which means both of our skimmers are currently sitting at different heights in the water.

Our builder first blamed the sunken corner on "washout" during a rainstorm. We never saw any signs of a washout in that corner during construction, and are not convinced that it was ever properly leveled in the first place- or perhaps, was leveled at some point but not checked throughout the construction process. Long story short, our builder was open to fixing the mistake until I insisted that we had all our questions answered and put his agreement to fix in writing before making my final payment. He then changed his interpretation of what caused the settling, and blamed "record rainfall", claiming that the pool corner settled post backfill/concrete, and it was all "out of his control". Just to clarify- there are no other visible signs that the corner of the pool settled. He has since been unresponsive.

We are unsure if we even want our builder to come back and fix his mistake as it sounds risky, especially if we are to believe that the ground was unstable and has settled. He proposed jackhammering out the concrete pool deck up to the point of the "settled" walls and using steel "shims" (as he called them) that are made to level out the steel walls, then repouring only the part of the concrete decking that had to be jackhammered away... He was unsure if the concrete pool deck could even be rebarred, which was a question of ours that continues to go unanswered. I am not sure if this is a proper fix, and do not want to open it up to more significant problems in the future. Not to mention that it is hard to trust him now that he has changed his story and stopped responding to my inquiries. Does this sound like a fix that is reasonable, or something worth pursuing? Any advice is appreciated.


My second question is in regards to interpreting Building Codes. In looking through the ISPSC 2018 Building Codes (that our city adopted) it states:

308.4 Waterline
"The design waterline shall have a maximum construction tolerance at the time of completion of the work of plus or minus 1/4 inch (6.4mm) for pools and spas with adjustable weir surface skimming systems, and plus or minus 1/8 inch (3.2mm) for pool sand spas with non adjustable surface skimmer systems."

The way this reads to me is that our waterline upon completion of the pool should not be more than 1/4 of an inch different from one end of the pool to the other. Is my interpretation of this correct? If so, that would mean we are 3/4 inch beyond the construction tolerance. If there is someone familiar with reading building codes who can confirm this or correct my interpretation, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for reading, hoping there is someone here who can answer my questions and maybe has had a similar experience. Though I wouldn't wish this overall experience on anyone....

 

[Bperry]

Our pool build was just completed and as soon as it was filled with water, we noticed that there was a low corner at deep end. At time of fill it measured one inch lower than the other 3 corners. It also happens to be the side that our Hayward Autoskim is located, which means both of our skimmers are currently sitting at different heights in the water.

Our builder first blamed the sunken corner on "washout" during a rainstorm. We never saw any signs of a washout in that corner during construction, and are not convinced that it was ever properly leveled in the first place- or perhaps, was leveled at some point but not checked throughout the construction process. Long story short, our builder was open to fixing the mistake until I insisted that we had all our questions answered and put his agreement to fix in writing before making my final payment. He then changed his interpretation of what caused the settling, and blamed "record rainfall", claiming that the pool corner settled post backfill/concrete, and it was all "out of his control". Just to clarify- there are no other visible signs that the corner of the pool settled. He has since been unresponsive.

We are unsure if we even want our builder to come back and fix his mistake as it sounds risky, especially if we are to believe that the ground was unstable and has settled. He proposed jackhammering out the concrete pool deck up to the point of the "settled" walls and using steel "shims" (as he called them) that are made to level out the steel walls, then repouring only the part of the concrete decking that had to be jackhammered away... He was unsure if the concrete pool deck could even be rebarred, which was a question of ours that continues to go unanswered. I am not sure if this is a proper fix, and do not want to open it up to more significant problems in the future. Not to mention that it is hard to trust him now that he has changed his story and stopped responding to my inquiries. Does this sound like a fix that is reasonable, or something worth pursuing? Any advice is appreciated.


My second question is in regards to interpreting Building Codes. In looking through the ISPSC 2018 Building Codes (that our city adopted) it states:

308.4 Waterline
"The design waterline shall have a maximum construction tolerance at the time of completion of the work of plus or minus 1/4 inch (6.4mm) for pools and spas with adjustable weir surface skimming systems, and plus or minus 1/8 inch (3.2mm) for pool sand spas with non adjustable surface skimmer systems."

The way this reads to me is that our waterline upon completion of the pool should not be more than 1/4 of an inch different from one end of the pool to the other. Is my interpretation of this correct? If so, that would mean we are 3/4 inch beyond the construction tolerance. If there is someone familiar with reading building codes who can confirm this or correct my interpretation, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for reading, hoping there is someone here who can answer my questions and maybe has had a similar experience. Though I wouldn't wish this overall experience on anyone....

Assuming its a cantelever style deck, then yea theyd have to jackhammer it out and relevel the walls. Not sure what “rebarring the deck” is, but lots of decks dont have any rebar (if thats what it means).

If the builder isnt responding, then you need to be prepared for him to just bail out or file a lien on the property to get final payment and then fight it out in court, or see if you can come to a compromise. Thr pool manufacturer should have a requirement for how level is needs to be so that may be something to call them about.

 

[Mdragger88]

Well, it’s definitely not right. But I would leave it alone for now unless you’re willing to pay someone else to fix it & still be prepared for him to come after his $ via a lien as Bperry mentioned.
Perhaps consult an attorney about the best way to proceed before taking action. You may need to send him a letter certified mail to give him notice & or make your demand if that’s what they suggest.

 

[Newdude]

Perhaps consult an attorney

If you do,

Do. Not. Tell. The. PB.

That toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube and once it's said out loud, it's a surefire way to ensure the only response you'll get from the PB is through his lawyer.

And it will be 'we'll see you in court'.

People want to threaten that they have or will have a lawyer and it backfires spectacularly.

 

[Newdude]

I don't see how they'd raise the wall. The bottom of it is encased in the concrete collar. At the very least, they're going to have to make a large hole to get there and have access to it.

 

[Bperry]

I don't see how they'd raise the wall. The bottom of it is encased in the concrete collar. At the very least, they're going to have to make a large hole to get there and have access to it.

Maybe its not encased in concrete and thats why it sunk?

 

[Newdude]

Maybe its not encased in concrete and thats why it sunk?

It's still on undisturbed earth and exactly where they left it, being new.

Either something moved it before they backfilled, or it wasn't straight to begin with.

 

[JY2024]

Thanks for the responses thus far. A few points of clarification:
Pool was built with steel walls and has aluminum coping and an Automatic Pool Cover autocover. Concrete footings were poured and it was backfilled with stone.
The fix would build the steel walls taller at the top to relevel- he referred to the steel extensions as "shims" but I can see now how that's confusing as they will not be adding any height at the bottom, where the wall is locked in by the concrete footings. I tend to agree that the walls either moved pre backfill/footings, or it wasn't leveled to begin with. This was the initial thought the day we found the problem, which builder confirmed in person. He verbally offered to "hold back" approx. 1/3 of the final payment which he estimated would be his cost to fix ($5500). However, the following day, our patio company came to relevel our pavers back to our pool deck, and we discovered that the grade of the pool was set at least an inch too high, so patio had to be pulled approx. 15 feet back (in addition to the 3 feet we had already pulled). The patio rebuild alone was $4200. He agreed to pay that difference, which was kind on his part but also arguably his responsibility as the original grade was wrong which affected the entire project. I still don't have a paver patio that drains properly and am waiting on the patio company to come fix for the 3rd time. The reason I clarify this is that while he knew there would be additional work on our paver patio to ensure the pool deck and pavers are level post steel wall fix, when he agreed to pay for that he had no idea that the grade was already too high and that the next day he would be out that expense due to another mistake.

At this point, obviously my confidence in his ability as well as his verbal agreement to fix the mistakes was pretty low. So I requested that prior to making any kind of final payment, we decide on whether or not we wanted him to fix the walls by meeting with him to ask all of our questions, and then put all of the expectations in writing, including what he would be responsible for. We offered to meet with him ASAP to iron everything out as quickly as possible and come to a mutual agreement, as we aren't looking for anything for "free"; we want a pool that is done right and if it is, would be more than happy to give him the original contract price. I've just never heard of a fix of this nature, and am unsure if breaking up the original pool deck and disassembling all of the coping, autocover unit, moving the skimmer, patching the original skimmer hole, reinstalling the original liner and repouring only part of the concrete deck could compromise any of those things and open us up to much more extensive problems in the future. This is not my wheelhouse- hence why I paid a "professional" to do it. Also what led me here, as I was hoping someone with much more experience might be able to address these concerns. I've never had a pool before, and its just disappointing that my dream is currently a nightmare.

Unfortunately his response to my request to meet and put things in writing was less than kind, dishonest (corner settled post backfill/concrete and "out of his control"), and he has since been unresponsive. I truly am not interested in involving lawyers, as that's a lose-lose in my book. I am already stuck with a pool that is unlevel and hours worth of my lost time in worrying, researching, and trying to figure out what the right resolution is, or if it's even worth attempting to get him to fix....

A time machine and a contract with a more competent builder would be pretty great though.

 

[Bperry]

Thanks for the responses thus far. A few points of clarification:
Pool was built with steel walls and has aluminum coping and an Automatic Pool Cover autocover. Concrete footings were poured and it was backfilled with stone.
The fix would build the steel walls taller at the top to relevel- he referred to the steel extensions as "shims" but I can see now how that's confusing as they will not be adding any height at the bottom, where the wall is locked in by the concrete footings. I tend to agree that the walls either moved pre backfill/footings, or it wasn't leveled to begin with. This was the initial thought the day we found the problem, which builder confirmed in person. He verbally offered to "hold back" approx. 1/3 of the final payment which he estimated would be his cost to fix ($5500). However, the following day, our patio company came to relevel our pavers back to our pool deck, and we discovered that the grade of the pool was set at least an inch too high, so patio had to be pulled approx. 15 feet back (in addition to the 3 feet we had already pulled). The patio rebuild alone was $4200. He agreed to pay that difference, which was kind on his part but also arguably his responsibility as the original grade was wrong which affected the entire project. I still don't have a paver patio that drains properly and am waiting on the patio company to come fix for the 3rd time. The reason I clarify this is that while he knew there would be additional work on our paver patio to ensure the pool deck and pavers are level post steel wall fix, when he agreed to pay for that he had no idea that the grade was already too high and that the next day he would be out that expense due to another mistake.

At this point, obviously my confidence in his ability as well as his verbal agreement to fix the mistakes was pretty low. So I requested that prior to making any kind of final payment, we decide on whether or not we wanted him to fix the walls by meeting with him to ask all of our questions, and then put all of the expectations in writing, including what he would be responsible for. We offered to meet with him ASAP to iron everything out as quickly as possible and come to a mutual agreement, as we aren't looking for anything for "free"; we want a pool that is done right and if it is, would be more than happy to give him the original contract price. I've just never heard of a fix of this nature, and am unsure if breaking up the original pool deck and disassembling all of the coping, autocover unit, moving the skimmer, patching the original skimmer hole, reinstalling the original liner and repouring only part of the concrete deck could compromise any of those things and open us up to much more extensive problems in the future. This is not my wheelhouse- hence why I paid a "professional" to do it. Also what led me here, as I was hoping someone with much more experience might be able to address these concerns. I've never had a pool before, and its just disappointing that my dream is currently a nightmare.

Unfortunately his response to my request to meet and put things in writing was less than kind, dishonest (corner settled post backfill/concrete and "out of his control"), and he has since been unresponsive. I truly am not interested in involving lawyers, as that's a lose-lose in my book. I am already stuck with a pool that is unlevel and hours worth of my lost time in worrying, researching, and trying to figure out what the right resolution is, or if it's even worth attempting to get him to fix....

A time machine and a contract with a more competent builder would be pretty great though.

If the only payment left to him is the $5500 then that may be why hes checked out. If it’ll cost him close to $5500 to fix the issues then theres not much incentive to actually do it (other than customer satisfaction and pride in workmanship) as its just easier to cut his losses. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Newdude]

Adding height (above) to the low wall keeps the low skimmer still low.

 

[JY2024]

If the only payment left to him is the $5500 then that may be why hes checked out. If it’ll cost him close to $5500 to fix the issues then theres not much incentive to actually do it (other than customer satisfaction and pride in workmanship) as its just easier to cut his losses. Sorry to hear that.

Total final payment was closer to $17,000- he just offered to "hold back" $5500 of that payment. But yes, I'm willing to bet that once you figure in lost time for the fix (every minute he's in my yard from this point forward he makes $0), materials, etc, + the $4200 he's already out on the patio/grading mistake, there isn't much incentive to be responsive. Professionalism, customer satisfaction, pride in workmanship clearly aren't driving his current decision making.

 

[JY2024]

Adding height (above) to the low wall keeps the low skimmer still low.

If it were to be fixed, there would be a new hole cut for the skimmer. This was another concern of mine...cutting a new hole, patching old hole in steel, and I assume patching the liner? All sounded like a risky fix and could cause problems down the road, no?

 

[Bperry]

I will say that my pool is no longer level as well (appears to have sunk on one side due to a water leak/inadequate backfill) and it is kind of annoying having one skimmer lower than the other because the water level needs to be maintained more carefully or the higher skimmer will suck air long before the lower skimmer. And if i add enough water to buffer the higher skimmer, the lower skimmer is closer to over overflowing. So ive got a siphon hose I set up during big rains to prevent an overflow. Theres about an inch difference in skimmer heights.

 

[Mdragger88]

Thanks for clarifying the shim thing. Sounds like its secure just not in the right position.
If this were me- I’d probably just let it go with the “discount”,
get the deck/patio draining properly & be vigilant of the water level in the pool. Revist the subject of raising the skimmer in 10 or 15 years when it is new liner time.
I know it sucks that its not perfect but construction rarely goes completely as planned. Basically tearing everything apart is really not that worth it over an inch & somewhat of a risk no matter who does the job. Although I agree that this guy wouldn’t be my pick.

 

[ajw22]

With the shim raising the top wall height and moving the skimmer the existing liner needs to be replaced. You don’t want to begin with a patched liner in a new pool.

Keep the pool as is and keep the remaining payment as damages for future repairs.

In 10 years when a liner replacement is needed you can decide if you want to make adjustments to the skimmer and wall height.

 

[sktn77a]

Did you get a permit for the pool and was it inspected?

 

[JY2024]

Did you get a permit for the pool and was it inspected?

Yes and yes

 

[sktn77a]

I think the inspectors pay more attention to electrical and gas codes than the actual build quality. and their final inspection may have been done before the pool was filled (it amazing how water level shows up minor imperfections in level).

You could have a heart to heart with him and ask for monetary renumeration as his build didn't comply with national standards - it was his fault he didn't take into account any issues (and check the level of the walls if, indeed there was any "washout") before going ahead with the build.

 

[ajw22]

I think the inspectors pay more attention to electrical and gas codes than the actual build quality.

Inspectors job is code enforcement not quality reviews.

If it is not specified in the building codes they are responsible for it is not their job.

A nice inspector may make some off the record comments about what he is observing if you are there with him and chat him up.

 

[JY2024]

I think the inspectors pay more attention to electrical and gas codes than the actual build quality. and their final inspection may have been done before the pool was filled (it amazing how water level shows up minor imperfections in level).

You could have a heart to heart with him and ask for monetary renumeration as his build didn't comply with national standards - it was his fault he didn't take into account any issues (and check the level of the walls if, indeed there was any "washout") before going ahead with the build.

I believe that is correct, the inspections seemed more safety focused than quality. I agree that we should be able to have a productive conversation at this point about a fair final payment.

My reason for asking about the building code centers more on my protection as a consumer. For example, I don't have it spelled out in a contract that my pool walls should be level (nor do I believe I should have to?)...and while I understand that it may be near impossible to have it perfect, an inch seems to be "incorrect". Are there other national standards that I am missing and can cite as a clear cut indication that his build is not the quality that I should expect? I was looking for some objective construction tolerances vs. opinions of what an acceptable difference may be. And I was unsure if my interpretation of the waterline code was correct.