Spa and jet strength help!

[Socalpoolandspa]

Hi! If anyone here has thoughts on this I’d love to hear. This is what I sent my pool builder. I am not able to attach the videos I referred to in this forum. I’m wondering if the filter has anything to do with this or if this is ‘air lock’ ??

“Hey Dennis! I have a few questions about the spa in general. Has to do with when I just use the regular pump (spa mode) then turn on the booster (spa Mode + booster) then turn the booster off (back to spa mode) Attached videos show what I mean:

Video file 0607 is when I first turn on the spa with main pump only. Video shows jets just pushing some water out, and are not strong.

Video file 0608 is when I ALSO turn on the booster. You can see the jets get very strong.

Video file 0609 is when I turn off the booster. You can see the jets working as they should with ONLY the main pump. (Still pretty strong!)

So basically, whenever i turn on the spa with just the main pump, the jets are weak. But when I add the booster pump, then turn it off, the main pump makes the jets work as they should. I am not sure this is normal? Cause what if I didn’t have a booster pump? How would the I get the main pump to make the jets work as shown in video 0609?

I’ve noticed this for a while - just forgot to ask. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[mas985]

First, let's get some definitions straight.

I assume that when you say booster, you really mean blower.

What you are experience is normal for certain spa setups and I will explain why.

When both the main pump and blower are off, the spa jet air pipes tend to fill with water.

When you turn on the main pump, the water flows through the venturi jets and creates a suction on the air pipe. However, if the air pipe is deep underground, the suction may not be enough to clear the air pipe. This is usually caused by a bad plumbing design and is a very expensive fix as the spa plumbing needs to be modified near the spa.

This is where the blower helps. It basically pushes out any remain water in the air pipe so you get full jet action.

In reality, the water flow rate does not change but the air flow is what is change. Air helps make the jet feel stronger by create a pulsating effect.

As I mentioned above, if a spa is designed properly, it does not need a blower. My spa does not have a blower and the jets work great.

So either you leave as is and just use the blower when you want to use jets or we can explore some options but I would need a very detailed description of the spa plumbing and pad setup.

 

[Socalpoolandspa]

Thank you! I’m not sure it’s a blower. Pool builder always referred to it as a booster pump. It’s a Pentair Whisperflo (011533 - PMP WHISPERFLO VST) that does not run through the DE quad filter.

Main pump is the Intelliflo (011075 - Intelliflo3 VSF 3HP).

When I start with the main pump, then turn on the booster, I can turn off that booster once jets get going good - because then main pump works fine alone; so I am able to just use the main pump if I don’t want to have two pumps running.

What’s also interesting is that if I just run the booster (or blower??) the jets work great too - - - without ever turning on the main pump. The way you described the experience seems like this would happen when only one pump runs, no matter which pump. But I guess not!

What you said about this being expected / normal makes me feel a lot better. I just wanted to make sure something big isn’t wrong.

Side note: running both pumps together does make the jets amazingly strong.

 

[mas985]

Can you post picture of your pad equipment?

 

[Socalpoolandspa]

Here you go! Attached best photos as I could get. Basically I have a the 011075 - Intelliflo3 VSF 3HP as main pump, the 011533 - PMP WHISPERFLO VST as ‘booster’ pump for spa jets (independent water pipes that doesn’t run through filter nor heater) this is the pump directly next to the heather in one of the photos.

3rd pump you see by the quad DE is a 015583 - Whisperflo TEFC Pump- 1.1THP dedicated to the waterfall feature. (Independent water - also does not run through heater or filter)

Intelliflo is the pump in the photo by most of the pipes and the UV light.

The pool builder, referrals and various pool service companies I’ve hired (then fired) all said how good of a setup this is. Hope that’s the case!

 

[mas985]

I can't make out much from the photos. But given what you are describing, it seems as though both pumps are plumbed into the same return line for the spa jets. A few questions.

Do both pump returns lines combine into a single line to the spa before going underground (i.e. parallel pumps) OR do you see the return of one pump going into the suction of the second pump (i.e. series pumps)?

How many pipe runs are there from the pumps to the spa jets?

How many spa jets are there?

What is the distance from the pumps to the spa jets?

What is the filter pressure with each pump on by itself and then together?

It looks like you have both heat pump and NG heater?

Do either of these have a bypass line?

Any chance you could draw up a schematic of the plumbing?

 

[mas985]

I should have added that this is the way dual pump spa's are usually plumbed. One pump is used for the filter and heating while the other is dedicated to the spa jets but it doesn't sound like yours works this way:

 

[Socalpoolandspa]

Really appreciate your help. I am not able to answer most of these good questions but I am attaching new photos that are clearer. Also, attached the pool builder plan to see if that helps?

Some answers:
- 8 jets (2 per side)
- booster pump has its own isolated water line that ties into the 8 jets somewhere. (Believe the waterfall pump is also isolated).
- I don’t have a heat pump
- believe only the main pump routes through the filter, so pressure is about 10-12 on regular speed and about 20 on high (3450) rpm). When spa is on with main pump, filter pressure is about 29-30.
I do not see bypasses on these.

 

[mas985]

He may have connected the two return runs near the spa. If so, then when you turn both pumps on, you get higher flow rates through the jets which can explain why it is stronger.

However, if you use just the main pump, it is going through the filter and heater which has a lot more head loss so does not have enough flow rate to clear the venturis.


Can you ask the PB for a plumbing schematic?

Are there three pumps?

Why do you have the return ports partially off? You have a VS pump so that should be unnecessary and inefficient.

 

[Socalpoolandspa]

Ah! Sorry about that. The pump with the valves halfway is the whisperflo dedicated only to the waterfalls. The valves are 1/2 way cause the waterfalls are too strong when valves fully open. (Photo)

The vst booster is connected to easy touch via a comm wire so I can control speeds on screen logic and etc.

I will see about a plumbing schematic. I am thinking i won’t be able to get it.

I get what you say about the heater and filter with main pump - but any idea why the main pump DOES make the jets work really well after I turn the booster on and then off?

 

[mas985]

Ah! Sorry about that. The pump with the valves halfway is the whisperflo dedicated only to the waterfalls. The valves are 1/2 way cause the waterfalls are too strong when valves fully open. (Photo)

That one is not a VS pump?

The vst booster is connected to easy touch via a comm wire so I can control speeds on screen logic and etc.

I will see about a plumbing schematic. I am thinking i won’t be able to get it.

I get what you say about the heater and filter with main pump - but any idea why the main pump DOES make the jets work really well after I turn the booster on and then off?

Because after the air pipe is cleared, the jets are stronger. The problem is that plumbing loop does not have enough flow rate to clear the air pipes.

 

[Socalpoolandspa]

Got it! Thank you. No sir, the waterfall pump is a single speed.

 

[Socalpoolandspa]

Filter was cleaned. Jets appear to work fine with just the main pump now (and my Mx elite vacuum climbs walls again!).

While this was new construction, turns out there was a fair amount of pebble tech debris and leaves in the filter.