Soon to be pool owner needs automation advice

[jsbaker]

We are in the process of purchasing a home which has an IG pool and need some advice on going with an automation system since the electrical needs to be cleaned up anyways. we are closing in two weeks so i'm researching options. It has a Chem-Less ozone system which will be going away asap and we already have a TF-100 test kit ready to go.

The pool is currently controlled by an intermatic timer with dual clocks, one is always on and has no trippers and the other has one on and one off. The pool has a single speed filter pump, polaris booster pump and a pump for the waterfall and light is controlled by a switch on the patio. I don't know brands or models of any of the pumps yet but I do know the polaris pump only comes on if the filter pump is on. The pool was installed in 2002 an as far as we know so far there is no GFCI on the light or the pumps.

We definitely want to convert to saltwater do might as well do it now and plan to replace the filter pump with a VS model eventually. I've been looking in the Easytouch with IC40 system and the aquaplus with T-15 system or the prologic. I've read conflicting info as to whether or not the Aquaplus can control a VS pump some saying yes and some saying no and even one saying they control an intelliflo with it.

So with this limited info which system would you go with? Also would you do a GFCI breaker for the whole panel in the house breaker box or would you do indiviudal GFCI breaker in the automation panel for each piece of equipment?

 

[Jimrahbe]

js,

Welcome to TFP... a great place to find the answers to all of your "How can I fix this equipment pad mess?" questions...

I have the Pentair automation system and have been very happy with it... Here is a blurb that I have used before, but it will give you some insight as to how most automation systems work. The main key is that the Automation, any SWCG, and any VS pump all must be the same brand to allow them to communicate together. All Pentair, or all Hayward or all Jandy...


1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as, Booster pumps, Spa blowers, landscape lights, etc…. The EasyTouch 8 has eight (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. Solar System. The EasyTouch has a built-in solar controller.. It does however use one of the valve outputs to run…

11. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allows you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

12. Variable Speed pumps... The EasyTouch can be programmed to adjust your pump’s speed. So when running just the pool, it can run slow, but when running your waterfall, it will automatically increase the speed to make your waterfall or other water features look exactly how you want them to look.

If you made it this far, feel free to start asking more questions...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jsbaker]

Thanks Jim for the in depth reply!

Sounds like the easy touch is going to be the way to go which is the direction I was headed.

 

[uxbridgechris]

Gfci in panel or individual gfci outlets. doesn't matter. I guess the advantage of individual is that if you have a ground fault, you know what circuit it is on. Also, you dint need to go to basement to reset.

 

[jsbaker]

I was thinking individual gfci breakers in the pool panel would be better. The house breaker box is right on the other side of the fence that is behind the pool shed but the gate is on the other end of the house.

I've settled on the Easytouch 4 pool only system with the IC40 cell and will be upgrading to an intelliflo pump as soon as possible since the current one is 1 speed only and very loud anyway.

 

[tstex]

js,

It's industry protocol to install the GFCI's in the pool panel that directly supports the VSP, not a GFCI for house panel supporting the pool panel. Make sure you read the VSP's install guide bc it will determine what GFCI's the manufacturer recommends, but that GFCI breaker must be compatible w the pool panel...good luck

 

[Jimrahbe]

I've settled on the Easytouch 4 pool only system with the IC40 cell and will be upgrading to an intelliflo pump as soon as possible since the current one is 1 speed only and very loud anyway.

js,

This is what you want... https://sunplay.com/collections/pentair-easytouch-control-systems/products/pentair-easy-touch-control-system-520593

Just keep in mind that an ET 4 really only has 3 available relays..

Pump/Filter Relay, must be used to control the power to the IC40's power supply (and any single speed main pool pump)... This leaves 3 Aux relays that you can use to control anything that uses 120 or 220 volt power. I've listed some examples below..

Aux1 Pool Light
Aux2 Pad Light
Aux3 Landscape lights.

Also... you did not say how big your pool is, but the IC40 is only good for pools up to 20K gallons... anything larger and you will need the IC60. This is because they rate cells when running at 100% 24/7...

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[jsbaker]

js,

This is what you want... https://sunplay.com/collections/pen...ucts/pentair-easy-touch-control-system-520593

Jim R.

Yep that's the exact one I've been looking at. I forgot the transformer for the intellichlor would be hooked to the pump relay which is good since the other 3 will be used for the waterfall, light and booster pump. We close next Friday so I don't know at the moment how big the pool is but we are estimating somewhere around 12K going by it's size. I've considered going up to the 8 function model for future expansion like the pad or landscape lights but not sure if I can justify the extra expense after barely getting the ok to go this route from the other half as it is which is why we are waiting to add the screen logic and upgrade the pump for a few months.

 

[Jimrahbe]

js,

Unless you have a separate pump for your waterfall, it would normally be controlled by an automated valve and not a relay... (You will have to buy the valve actuator)

You can configure it to work using a "Feature" circuit, which means you would not have to use one of your Aux relays..

The downside to getting the ET 4 (that is what I have) is that you can't just buy additional relays... You have to buy a whole new circuit card...

If you don't use solar, you can use the solar button to turn on an additional (5th) relay or your waterfall...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jsbaker]

So i'm kind of back at square one with which automation system to go with. I was set to go with the Easy Touch 4 with the IC40 but now i'm considering going with the Hayward Prologic with T-Cell-15 as I did find out the pool is 20k gallons. Due to cost issues we will not be going with smartphone control right away but do plan on adding it eventually so no use in getting an external control panel either and the hayward just looks easier to program and use at the panel. I was also ordered by the other half to go ahead and replace the main pump at the same time with a VSP so that's what has me stuck now.

I have 3 pumps to control, main, booster for the polaris and a waterfall pump. All are single speed and only the main will be upgraded to a VSP. I can't decide if I should go ET4 with intelliflo or the Prologic with either a tristar or ecostar for the filter pump. The Hayward route would be the cheaper option and since the pump has now been added to the project I'm more inclined to go that way. I don't need to control any valves or anything extra other than the light.

Any pros or cons to sway me either way would be greatly appreciated.