Sigh. New with so many questions
- Thread starter dougbenmne
- Start date
I just finished adding in the bleach. How soon do I test again? How soon can the kids swim again?
Ok I noticed that you seem to have let your FC drop below shock level for your CYA, have you passed the over night FC loss test?
I have never done the overnight test. From the original to the post with test results yesterday there was a significant amount of pool water replaced as I was cleansing out the last of the algae and yuck.
Oh ok, I was under the impression you were shocking the pool. If you are you need to get your FC up to shock level and hold it there until you pass the over night test. You can swim in the pool with FC up to the shock level for your CYA, not above.
If you are not shocking it and are just adding daily maintenance bleach you can test/swim about 1/2 hour after adding the bleach with the pump running.
If you are not shocking it and are just adding daily maintenance bleach you can test/swim about 1/2 hour after adding the bleach with the pump running.
Ok, I have not touched my pool since Tuesday as an unexpected family matter took me out of town. This morning's test results are as follows:
Cl 2-3
Br 4-6
pH 7.5
FC 2
CC 0
TC 2
TA 170
CH 160
CYA 100
temp 85
What do I need to focus on at this point? What do my goals need to be? Pool is clear with some debris on bottom. The vac will be hooked up shortly.
Thanks so much for helping me out!
Cl 2-3
Br 4-6
pH 7.5
FC 2
CC 0
TC 2
TA 170
CH 160
CYA 100
temp 85
What do I need to focus on at this point? What do my goals need to be? Pool is clear with some debris on bottom. The vac will be hooked up shortly.
Thanks so much for helping me out!
I'm pretty new here, IMO, your FC of 2 is way too low for your CYA level at 100 (too high for me, 60-70 would be the max.) If you used a good kit to determine that it is correct reading. You need to be at a minimum of FC 7, I would get it to 9-10 to start until you learn more about what your pool is needing. I would also like to see the T/A lower also, but others here with more experence can help.
Use this chart http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
Use this calculator for amounts to use http://www.thepoolcalculator.com/
For reference to learn what to do, read and study this pool school http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/
Use this chart http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
Use this calculator for amounts to use http://www.thepoolcalculator.com/
For reference to learn what to do, read and study this pool school http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/
See, this is where I am needing more help. I am trying to read and apply what is in the pool school and that calculator, but honestly, I am not sure I am on the right path or using the information correctly. I am using a good test kit now but, well, am starting to feel like I am trying to play football using a baseball handbook. And, with no one helping it is frustrating.supertune said:
I know it can all seem like TOO much at first, but I promise, you will get it!
I am confused about your CYA number... and it is one of the most important numbers to be accurate on as it determines the amount of chlorine you need to keep your pool in a safe condition for swimming. The number you posted when you got the new kit was 80 and the number today is 100. If you were only using bleach, I don't think this number should have risen. You are using the Black Dot CYA test, right? It can sometimes be difficult to read. Often times, I will read this test several times from the same sample until I am sure of my reading. You can do this just by pouring your sample from the DOT vial back into the mixing bottle and then back into the DOT vial again. Do this until you are confident in your result. As I said, your FC target and shock value will be determined by your CYA number.
It is good that your water is clear and you have no CC's, but keeping your FC at the recommended levels for your CYA is the only thing that will keep it that way. As it stands right now, your high CYA value means that you will need to add bleach in greater amounts just to keep your FC at a minimum level and that is why partial water replacement was recommended.
I am confused about your CYA number... and it is one of the most important numbers to be accurate on as it determines the amount of chlorine you need to keep your pool in a safe condition for swimming. The number you posted when you got the new kit was 80 and the number today is 100. If you were only using bleach, I don't think this number should have risen. You are using the Black Dot CYA test, right? It can sometimes be difficult to read. Often times, I will read this test several times from the same sample until I am sure of my reading. You can do this just by pouring your sample from the DOT vial back into the mixing bottle and then back into the DOT vial again. Do this until you are confident in your result. As I said, your FC target and shock value will be determined by your CYA number.
It is good that your water is clear and you have no CC's, but keeping your FC at the recommended levels for your CYA is the only thing that will keep it that way. As it stands right now, your high CYA value means that you will need to add bleach in greater amounts just to keep your FC at a minimum level and that is why partial water replacement was recommended.
I will test CYA again today after dd's dr appt. It is possible I was reading the black dot test wrong because I have only added bleach. Thank you for telling me how to redo it. That helps reduce test taking anxiety LOL.dattia said:
I just keep feeling like I am missing something, something important, that I should be addressing.
Pools are simply a lot easier to manage with lower CYA.
I goofed and bumped mine up to 40ppm this year (10-15ppm too high) and now have to keep TC at 3-7 instead of 2-5 like last year. Point is, just 10-15ppm CYA excess increased my chlorine target by 2ppm which is a considerable jump IMO. I was a bit confused after a winter of no pool, and I figured we'd lost most of the CYA over the winter due to rain (probably could have filled the pool with rain had we not left the ports open). I put 20ppm worth into a sock, and ended up at 40. DANGIT! should have checked first but I thought I was out of the CYA reagent, guestimated from the stupid strips that said 0, and rushed into it. Bad idea. I'm hoping for lots of splash-out so that I can close this fall at or around 20ppm but I think I'll be closer to 30 in reality.
So, for your situation, when I drop 80ppm CYA into the pool calculator for my pool the numbers increase to 6-11 and shock at 21. If I plug in 100ppm CYA, it shoots up to 8-13, shock 25. Cost aside, that's just too much chlorine to bother using when you can get by with 2-5/day and it's entirely possible you missed the correct shock level a few times with it being so high.
Last year we drained over 50% of the pool two weeks after setup due to high CYA that had been added by us, the misinformed (before we found TFP). Once we did that, it was smooth sailing all summer with daily bleach at or around 2 to 2-1/2 cups and nothing else except adding borates in August for that extra special glinty look/feel.
I guess I'm addressing your statement that you feel you're missing something. If I had to guess, that would be first the recommendation to replace at least half your water (calc says 60-70% if your goal was 30ppm CYA), and second... possibly the important part if you're ok with the higher chlorine demand, is what they call POP here. Patience... waiting is the hard part but after you're done waiting you'll wonder why you were so anxious cuz the pool is so darn pretty, all you had to do was be patient!
I goofed and bumped mine up to 40ppm this year (10-15ppm too high) and now have to keep TC at 3-7 instead of 2-5 like last year. Point is, just 10-15ppm CYA excess increased my chlorine target by 2ppm which is a considerable jump IMO. I was a bit confused after a winter of no pool, and I figured we'd lost most of the CYA over the winter due to rain (probably could have filled the pool with rain had we not left the ports open). I put 20ppm worth into a sock, and ended up at 40. DANGIT! should have checked first but I thought I was out of the CYA reagent, guestimated from the stupid strips that said 0, and rushed into it. Bad idea. I'm hoping for lots of splash-out so that I can close this fall at or around 20ppm but I think I'll be closer to 30 in reality.
So, for your situation, when I drop 80ppm CYA into the pool calculator for my pool the numbers increase to 6-11 and shock at 21. If I plug in 100ppm CYA, it shoots up to 8-13, shock 25. Cost aside, that's just too much chlorine to bother using when you can get by with 2-5/day and it's entirely possible you missed the correct shock level a few times with it being so high.
Last year we drained over 50% of the pool two weeks after setup due to high CYA that had been added by us, the misinformed (before we found TFP). Once we did that, it was smooth sailing all summer with daily bleach at or around 2 to 2-1/2 cups and nothing else except adding borates in August for that extra special glinty look/feel.
I guess I'm addressing your statement that you feel you're missing something. If I had to guess, that would be first the recommendation to replace at least half your water (calc says 60-70% if your goal was 30ppm CYA), and second... possibly the important part if you're ok with the higher chlorine demand, is what they call POP here. Patience... waiting is the hard part but after you're done waiting you'll wonder why you were so anxious cuz the pool is so darn pretty, all you had to do was be patient!
We have replaced so much water in this pool already that I really don't want to replace more at this point if I can avoid it. Easily since the algae bloom I know we have replace at least half of it at least once. I have no doubt that the cya is so high because I used the packaged HTH chemicals heavily before finding this site. Hopefully we can stay home enough this week for lots of splash out as well. I know once my son returns from camp there will be lots of splashout :lol:
So, what you are saying is that the higher the CYA the more bleach it will eat. Ok, I can handle that. Bleach is cheaper than water at this point, and easier to watch at the moment. AS far as what my goal is, well, I don't actually have one. I haven't figured that out completely thus the lostness.
If I am understanding it all correctly, I need to raise my FC to about 7 because my CYA is high. However, if I read the pool school it says a CYA of 80 is ok if there is lots of sunlight. This pool is in lots of direct sunlight all day. It has no cover. To raise the FC each day I need to check levels and add chlorine according to the calculator. Finding that number I can do on the calculator.
I will not be able to purchase muriatic acid until Thursday or Friday to lower TA. Will constant aeration help reduce that more until then or am I just fooling myself?
So, what you are saying is that the higher the CYA the more bleach it will eat. Ok, I can handle that. Bleach is cheaper than water at this point, and easier to watch at the moment. AS far as what my goal is, well, I don't actually have one. I haven't figured that out completely thus the lostness.
If I am understanding it all correctly, I need to raise my FC to about 7 because my CYA is high. However, if I read the pool school it says a CYA of 80 is ok if there is lots of sunlight. This pool is in lots of direct sunlight all day. It has no cover. To raise the FC each day I need to check levels and add chlorine according to the calculator. Finding that number I can do on the calculator.
I will not be able to purchase muriatic acid until Thursday or Friday to lower TA. Will constant aeration help reduce that more until then or am I just fooling myself?
The problem with that high of CYA is not just the higher amount of bleach the pool needs on a daily basis but if you need to shock the pool, the amount needed becomes VERY high. If I have been following your thread correctly, you shocked the pool but never attempted the over night test. You are not supposed stop the shock until you do. If your water is clear, I would do an FC test just after sundown and note the results, do not add any chlorine after the test. Do another FC and CC test just before/at sunrise. If you have lost less than or equal to 1ppm FC and CC is at .5ppm or lower, you are done and can maintain the pool daily. If not, you need to bring your pool up to shock levels and hold it there until you pass the over night test.
I used the pool calculator to estimate your volume, 24x48 rectangle to come up with 10800 gallons.
OK, so then I entered 90 for CYA into the calculator, taking the average of your two tests.
At the bottom of the calculator, you will see the recommended chlorine levels for your pool (enter gallons at the top, adjust the now column for your current readings, and enter your targets in the second column). If you look further at the bottom of the calculator, there are some goodies there that help you refine the calculator's results as well.
Your pool comes up with a minimum of 7, and target of 12. Shock is a whopping 23 and assuming you loose chlorine every day all the way down to the minimum (7) it will take 3 quarts two cups every day of bleach. And this is AFTER the pool is clear and balanced. To shock your pool from 7ppm to 23ppm it is 2 gallons 3 quarts or 2.8 (128 oz) jugs of 6% bleach initially and then whatever the difference is between 23 and current readings while your shocking.
So no, 7ppm is not nearly enough but rather your minimum (end of day, after sundown you hope not to be that low). You need to determine if you have chloramines (I don't see CC in your test results), and if so, shock till they are gone at 23ppm (and a splash extra, just in case). At that point, then do an overnight test. You should loose no chlorine overnight or less than 1ppm (see quote below from here pool-school/overnight_fc_test). At that point, then you will target each day for 12ppm in the morning and after a few days of use, sunlight, and testing you'll figure out about how much chlorine you pool will eat every day. If you're looking for the simplicity of the BBB method, this is where you get to stop daily testing, add the appropriate amount of bleach every night and stop thinking about the numbers but once every week or two.
As for lowering alkalinity, I don't think aeration will change it but I'm more informed about chlorine than alkalinity so I'll leave that for someone else to verify.
OK, so then I entered 90 for CYA into the calculator, taking the average of your two tests.
At the bottom of the calculator, you will see the recommended chlorine levels for your pool (enter gallons at the top, adjust the now column for your current readings, and enter your targets in the second column). If you look further at the bottom of the calculator, there are some goodies there that help you refine the calculator's results as well.
Your pool comes up with a minimum of 7, and target of 12. Shock is a whopping 23 and assuming you loose chlorine every day all the way down to the minimum (7) it will take 3 quarts two cups every day of bleach. And this is AFTER the pool is clear and balanced. To shock your pool from 7ppm to 23ppm it is 2 gallons 3 quarts or 2.8 (128 oz) jugs of 6% bleach initially and then whatever the difference is between 23 and current readings while your shocking.
So no, 7ppm is not nearly enough but rather your minimum (end of day, after sundown you hope not to be that low). You need to determine if you have chloramines (I don't see CC in your test results), and if so, shock till they are gone at 23ppm (and a splash extra, just in case). At that point, then do an overnight test. You should loose no chlorine overnight or less than 1ppm (see quote below from here pool-school/overnight_fc_test). At that point, then you will target each day for 12ppm in the morning and after a few days of use, sunlight, and testing you'll figure out about how much chlorine you pool will eat every day. If you're looking for the simplicity of the BBB method, this is where you get to stop daily testing, add the appropriate amount of bleach every night and stop thinking about the numbers but once every week or two.
As for lowering alkalinity, I don't think aeration will change it but I'm more informed about chlorine than alkalinity so I'll leave that for someone else to verify.
My pool is round if that makes any difference. According to the pool calculator it has 13500 gallons.
Ok. I feel like I am starting over. I was out of town several days and my dad and dh supposedly kept up the pool. Then I hear how it turned light green after a day full of kids and some rain. They then poured in 6 182oz bottles of bleach and let it run. They also had to add lots of water thanks to splash out. That was 2 days ago. I am now home and find the pool not green but it is slightly cloudy. The test results are as follows:
pH 7.8
CL Br bright orange, not even close to any of the yellows
FC 12.5
CC 0
TA 160
CH 160
CYA 70
Can you walk me thru this again?
Ok. I feel like I am starting over. I was out of town several days and my dad and dh supposedly kept up the pool. Then I hear how it turned light green after a day full of kids and some rain. They then poured in 6 182oz bottles of bleach and let it run. They also had to add lots of water thanks to splash out. That was 2 days ago. I am now home and find the pool not green but it is slightly cloudy. The test results are as follows:
pH 7.8
CL Br bright orange, not even close to any of the yellows
FC 12.5
CC 0
TA 160
CH 160
CYA 70
Can you walk me thru this again?
Sorry I haven't gotten involved before.
Lets just start as if new. Given your numbers you should raise the FC to shock level which is 28. So you need to add 2 large jugs of bleach. Give it an hour and test it again. Do that as often as every hour till your FC starts holding. Put your numbers in the Pool Calc to figure out how much to add. Be sure to put your current numbers in the Now column and the shock level in the Target column.
Don't worry about the rest of the numbers till you pass the OCLT. You can run it tonight if you want to.
Lets just start as if new. Given your numbers you should raise the FC to shock level which is 28. So you need to add 2 large jugs of bleach. Give it an hour and test it again. Do that as often as every hour till your FC starts holding. Put your numbers in the Pool Calc to figure out how much to add. Be sure to put your current numbers in the Now column and the shock level in the Target column.
Don't worry about the rest of the numbers till you pass the OCLT. You can run it tonight if you want to.
Thank you. I am working on this now. ONce we can stay at shock level, how long so I need to do that?
You need to hold it until you pass the OCLT. There's no way to tell how long that might be. There's a line in my sig on how to tell when you're done shocking.