She likes high pH

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S

shingles

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Jun 12, 2017
272
Houston, TX
So the pool has been done for about six months now. Everything has been good. Tests are good. But I noticed two observations.

1) The pool seems to want to settle around 8 for pH. I know new plaster will drive pH up. But no matter how aggressively I drop the pH, within a few days it comes right back up. It will stay around 8 for a while then start to climb if I let it. I usually try to take it down to about 7.2.

2) I seem to have found a combo to keep the FC around 5, even is fully sun high 90’s in Houston. Pool get a good dose of sun each day. Probably full sun for 7-8 hours. But to achieve this, it run my IC60 at 50% for 10 hours. CYA is around 70. I have though about raising it some more. Your thoughts?

A couple of potential, I stress potential since I am no expert, factors? I live out in the country side. I have lots of “random Crud” that blows Into the pool. Mostly grass shavings, bugs, and sand/dirt. We are out in the open so it’s very breezy out here. Could these elements drive up the pH and use more FC?

Thx.
 
1. What is your TA? What is the pH and TA for your top-off water from the tap? High TA can drive the pH up as will aeration (and SWGs)

2. As long as the is keeping the FC above the minimum for your CYA that is fine. You could add the same amount of FC by running at 100% output for only 5 hours ... less electricity for the pump ;) But, the longer run times may help with skimming off the junk you get in the pool.

FYI, your SWG produces 2 pounds of chlorine a day, this is equivalent to 8.6ppm of FC in your 28k pool. 50% at 10 hours is adding 1.8ppm of FC ... a typical loss is 2-4ppm to the sun, so you on the low side currently.
 
FC definitely yes. pH, I don't think so. Your plaster and SWG are driving your pH. I just went through this (new pebble, and new SWG). It didn't seem to matter how low I dropped pH, it'd come right back up, settle around 8, then slowly go up from there. I never let it get much higher, and I can't test above 8, so I don't know what it would do if left alone. I'm trying an IntellipH, as I am tired of dosing MA everyday. And worrying about it everyday. I fired it up last night. I'm hoping that'll solve this issue. It might have stabilized a bit, once my plaster finishes curing, without the IntellipH, but I have high TA fill water, and I think I've read that, plus the SWG, mean MA dosing forever, to some degree. So if I can tame that a bit with the IntellipH, then I'm golden. At the very least, I'll be able to leave my pool for a day or two (a week or two is the goal). Right now I'm a hostage, and have to do something pool everyday. That's the TFP way, I suppose, but I'm trying to cheat the system!
 
Dirk said:
FC definitely yes. pH, I don't think so. Your plaster and SWG are driving your pH. I just went through this (new pebble, and new SWG). It didn't seem to matter how low I dropped pH, it'd come right back up, settle around 8, then slowly go up from there. I never let it get much higher, and I can't test above 8, so I don't know what it would do if left alone. I'm trying an IntellipH, as I am tired of dosing MA everyday. And worrying about it everyday. I fired it up last night. I'm hoping that'll solve this issue. It might have stabilized a bit, once my plaster finishes curing, without the IntellipH, but I have high TA fill water, and I think I've read that, plus the SWG, mean MA dosing forever, to some degree. So if I can tame that a bit with the IntellipH, then I'm golden. At the very least, I'll be able to leave my pool for a day or two (a week or two is the goal). Right now I'm a hostage, and have to do something pool everyday. That's the TFP way, I suppose, but I'm trying to cheat the system!
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Find a way for me to buy and use the intelliPH without buying something extra. I’m in the same PH creep boat as you guys. I am lowering my TA slowly and have added BA but I’m about every fourth day adding MA.
 
I've read about lowering TA to control pH. And about borates. I've also read that TA will "seek it's own level" and not to obsess about it. I didn't try lowering mine any more than it is (70), because I'm guessing it's just going to come back to where it is now (my fill water has very high TA). So yah, I weighed the downside of another $500 thrown at the pool, another thing that needs annual maintenance, another thing that won't last, but I really want to be free of MA-a-day, and I don't see any other way around it. So I bit the bullet and am giving this a try. The part on this thing that tends to break down is less than around $50. The rest is just plastic. I supposed the controller will poop out. Oh well. I love the idea of not handling chemicals for long stretches of time, and just testing once or twice a week. That kinda feels like five bills to me...
 
jblizzle - fill water has a TA of 240 and pH of 8. I didn't actually think about that... not sure why, but now that you asked and I checked my original test record, duh, that and the new plaster, SWG would all contribute. The pool TA is currently 80. Part of trying to drive down the pH for me is trying to keep TA low(er). The skimming does help. The skimmers with socks catch a TON of stuff.. grass, bug, dirt, you name it. That's part of the reason I am running it for 10 hours. I originally had it for 50% at 8 hours, but it still losing more FC then the system was adding. At the time the CYA was 60. So I raised the CYA to 70 and upped the run time. Seems to be stable at 5... at least it's been 2 - 3 days now. Electricity is cheap here, I pay less than $0.10 (10 cents) per kWh. So I just let her rip. :)

Dirk - very interested in the intelliph test... I have been contemplating it. I don't mind testing the pool daily or even adding acid in daily. But if the intelliph works well, it's just one less thing to mess with. I would love to be able to test once a week, but really, I am a little too OCD I think.
 
I couldn't find any threads here about IntellipH where the users were not thrilled with having one. OCD here, too, but if I can satisfy my need to have my water perfect, and only test once a week, then that'll be something! I'm starting to learn the ins and outs: when it's extra hot, or lots of bather load, etc, then test more often, but if the activity of the pool is stable, then I should be able to go longer between tests. And two or three times a week to test is fine by me. I like doing it. And knowing. The dosing is more the issue...
 
I would bet money that Dirk is too OCD to test only once a week too [emoji23] The intellichem will make life easier though (unless you live in Australia and happen to have my lemon of a comparable system). Just dumped another 500ml of acid which is my nightly routine now until my auto dosing / calibration is sorted.
 
I think it is well documented here that some pools have perfectly stable pH, while others of similar build have rising pH. And neither condition is something the owner is doing or not doing, just the outside forces at play...
 

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While some pools are pH stable, they are in the minority. Rising pH is a condition MOST pool owners must deal with.

Lowering the TA (the correct way in Pool School) seems to slow the pH rise and is probably the best defense.
 
Thanks Dave. Question: my TA has stabilized at 70. I know how to force it down, but haven't tried because I'm under the impression it would just come back up (due to my high TA fill water). Is that not true? If I got it down to 60, would it stay there regardless of my TA230 fill water, or would it come back up on its own?
 
Dirk said:
Thanks Dave. Question: my TA has stabilized at 70. I know how to force it down, but haven't tried because I'm under the impression it would just come back up (due to my high TA fill water). Is that not true? If I got it down to 60, would it stay there regardless of my TA230 fill water, or would it come back up on its own?
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Dirk, I would think with you adding acid daily to keep your PH down, that if your TA “wanted” to go lower it would? It seems as you said, at 70 it’s found it’s equilibrium.
 
Your exact situation is reported by at least two members per month on this forum; it's probably even more often than that; it's not an epidemic but it's very common, but pool school still doesn't address the concept that the best TA level is the level that best maintains PH.

My PH will not stay steady unless my TA is no more than 50. Two seasons ago I got caught up in a cycle of constantly drifting PH; MA adds about three times per week every week. Every third week or so, just like a good student, I'd test everything and would find that TA had dropped out of range. Like a good student, I'd raise my TA back up in to the recommended range. The cycle continued. Back then, an AG vinyl pool recommendation was 70 on the low end (it's now lower). I asked advice on the forum and back then no one was talking about how TA doesn't have to stay in the recommended range, and those who are not chemistry minded wouldn't know that this one level has some wiggle room. I certainly didn't.

Back then, after Chem Geek told me that my TA could be as low as 36 with little risk of a crash with pretty much everyone else saying just to keep PH in range, I began having a trouble free pool by simply keeping PH in range until TA went down far enough via all those MA doses to keep my PH steady. That year my TA had to drop to 45 in order to keep PH steady. When I opened the next season (last Spring), I experienced slowly dropping PH. I added borax a couple times and when it dropped out the third time, I added only enough BS to raise TA by 5. I didn't want to over do it. After a couple more borax adds, I added another dose of BS to raise it 5 more. That was the last time I've had to adjust TA or PH. That's one and a half seasons with no out-of-range PH. My TA is 50. When I add CYA 2 to 3 times per year, my PH will drop down to the low end of the range; maybe as low as 7.3; but so far, it's always quickly recovered, and I just add liquid chlorine and cya occasionally; that's it. It's a trouble free pool.


If I understand correctly, plaster owners have to be a little more careful about letting PH drop too low, but overall, I'm a huge advocate of not worrying about maintaining any TA except for the number that best keeps PH steady.
 
Still not clear to me if I should be actively attempting to lower my TA, or just let it alone since it is within range, and let it find its own level. For now, I'm just going to keep upping my IntellipH output until my pH hangs around 7.6 or so, and then keep an eye on TA...
 
Dirk, not certain, I think you found the spot between rising ta from fill water and lowering ta from acid, if you try for 60 ta you might use the same amount of acid a week but more stable pH, it's worth a try.

Too late but you could have went with a stenner acid injection
 
cfherrman said:
Dirk, not certain, I think you found the spot between rising ta from fill water and lowering ta from acid, if you try for 60 ta you might use the same amount of acid a week but more stable pH, it's worth a try.

Too late but you could have went with a stenner acid injection
Click to expand...

I didn't look into those. I just stuck with Pentair because it makes me feel Intelli-gent... ;)

Maybe someday I'll look at IntelliChem, which, I assume, would want to work with the Pentair gear. And there is always the hope that Pentair will update their system so the IntellipH shows up in ScreenLogic (farfetched, but ya never know).
 
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