sequestrant no longer working on metals in water

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Old iron pipes can leach metal into the water. There is usually some sediment in old pipes that supply water throughout the city. If they have been working on the water lines anywhere it could have been flushed into your tap water. Take the lid off one of your toilet tanks and look inside. There may be some redish-brown sediment at the bottom of the tank. Take a sample of pool water and a sample of tap water and have both tested for metals.
 
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This is where I am today.. the exact same place I was last week, only worse and a little poorer! I’m at a real loss at what to do about it. I have never had it this bad in my 10 years as a pool owner. I could drain and refill, but the stains would still be there!

I’ve seen a whole lot of posts from folks that have been in my same boat but I don’t find any permanent solution. The posts just stopped without a solution.

I’ve done the absorbic acid...it didn’t work. I’m on city water in a neighborhood that is only 17 years old. There are no rust sediments in my toilets...they are perfectly clear. From what I read, I should have no reason to believe I have metals in my water. But, yet, these stains are cleaned by a Vit C! That is supposed to be metals! So what else could it also be??? There HAS to be something else this could be!
 
Um, the AA treatment did work. It removed the metal from the surface and put it back in the water. Then you have to continually use a sequestrant to keep the metal in the water and reduce the likelihood of the stains returning.

My only guess is that you were either using the wrong sequestrant or not enough of it to keep the metal in the water.

The easiest way to get the metal out of the water is replacing it with metal free water.
I think there are some advanced methods that might allow the metal to be filtered out, but we don't really teach them here.
 
jblizzle said:
Um, the AA treatment did work. It removed the metal from the surface and put it back in the water. Then you have to continually use a sequestrant to keep the metal in the water and reduce the likelihood of the stains returning.

My only guess is that you were either using the wrong sequestrant or not enough of it to keep the metal in the water.

The easiest way to get the metal out of the water is replacing it with metal free water.
I think there are some advanced methods that might allow the metal to be filtered out, but we don't really teach them here.
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I don't call my pool looking worse than it did a success. I have used 1 1/2 gallons of sequestrant...are you telling me that that isn't enough? Nowhere in the AA post does it specify a particular kind of sequestrant...now you're telling me that there's a specific kind I should be using??

Leslie's tells me there is no metal in my water. Is there a more reliable test for this than test strips??

So, am I now left with the only solution is draining my pool and the $200 worth of chemicals I've bought to try to fix this?
 
The following is from the article "Stains In Your Pool" where the link to the AA treatment is located:

Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top brand sequestrants. There are also other brands with similar active ingredients, some of which are noticeably less expensive.

You mentioned using Jack's in the first post of the thread, which is probably why it didn't come up again. Did you use Jack's Magic each time you added sequestrant? Are you keeping the pH between 7.0-7.2? The test strips only measure free metals, some drop kits also only measure free metals. Try calling some other pool stores and see if they test for total metals. It will be a drop based kit. My info is coming from Pool Store Tested for Metals with Test Strips - Any Good?
 
It is clear you have metal in the pool. But it will not show up on tests of the water if it is mostly deposited on the wall.

It seems that you still do not understand what the ascobic acid treatment actually does. All it does is lift the stains and put the metal back into the water. That was clearly successful when your stairs went back to White.
 
midtngal said:
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I’ve seen a whole lot of posts from folks that have been in my same boat but I don’t find any permanent solution. The posts just stopped without a solution.

I’ve done the absorbic acid...it didn’t work.
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Oh midtngal, this breaks my heart. Your pool was looking great, and I had hope briefly. And the reason I had subbed to this thread was I saw a brave soul out trying to conquer metal staining and I was rooting for you. Like you, my pool has a gnarly brownish looking stain, feels grainy instead of smooth like the rest of the vinyl. The stain will NOT lift at all with brushing/scrubbing. Chlorine doesn't phase it. However, like your pool, the stain in mine instantly lifted with vitamin C tabs. So I had confidence that the stains were metal stains.

Like you, I'm on city water and suspect little to no metal coming from my tap. However I do know for a fact that an old rusty umbrella stand took a swim in my pool when my winter cover fell in and drug the umbrella stand in. I also know, that in my effort to make my solar cover reel attaching straps more robust, I added bolt hardware instead of the plastic snaps that had all broken. Didn't get nice bolts, and they're a rusty mess. So I know where my rust came from.

Sadly I've seen the diagnosis for metal staining is grim. The AA treatment is only meant to lift the stain briefly from the pool walls/floor/steps. Then you have pool water with metal floating within. Supposedly the next fix is to lock the metal into the water with the sequestrent.

Also like you, I haven't seen other folks having much luck with the sequestrent. Perhaps if done perfectly, it will work. But it just seems like you're suspending metal into the water, and adding more chemicals to keep it afloat. And if anything ever falls out of spec, the metal will rest back on the pool creating stains again.

I've come to terms with the fact that the stains are more trouble to fix than they are an eyesore, and believe me, they are an eyesore, but I'd rather that metal be locked into a stain where it isn't in the water my kids are swimming in, than suspended in they water they play in.


I do have a known slow leak, which I may wind up fixing with a new liner next season. So I'll just wait till then, replace the solar cover hardware with stainless, and refill with metal-free tap.

So sorry things haven't gone to plan. I think you were on the right track, but I don't have faith in the sequestrent fix.
 
zea3 said:
The following is from the article "Stains In Your Pool" where the link to the AA treatment is located:

Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top brand sequestrants.
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The thread I followed was this one. There's not a single word there about using a particular type/kind of sequestrant. Yes, the pH has been kept at 7.2.

I did use Jack's magic step prior to this catastrophe. I am assuming that this is what caused the problem since I didn't lower my CL before using it but I used it last year and don't recall doing that and had no problems. The only other thing I can come up with is that the new steps I bought this year are what is bringing metal into the water. These are what I bought. Although, they have been in the water since May and haven't caused an issue till now.

If I drain and refill now, I'll still be left with stains. Do I blow another $100 on ascorbic acid and sequestrant to get the stains lifted and then drain??
 

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DirtyRat91 said:
Oh midtngal, this breaks my heart. Your pool was looking great, and I had hope briefly. And the reason I had subbed to this thread was I saw a brave soul out trying to conquer metal staining and I was rooting for you.
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Thanks DirtyRat91! I appreciate it! I'm pretty disgusted at this point myself! First time in 10 years I've had this happen! Par for the course this pool season! :(
 
jblizzle said:
It is clear you have metal in the pool. But it will not show up on tests of the water if it is mostly deposited on the wall.
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Can you honestly look at that picture and believe it may be mostly deposited on the wall?? I DO understand what ascorbic acid does! BUT, it apparently lets the metals back into the water as soon as you increase CL! I don't think, ANYONE is looking for a temporary fix to this problem so I'm not so sure this should be peddled as a fix to the problem. l have ordered this to see if I can ID the stain.

So, again I ask...is the solution to get rid of the stains then drain and refill before they have a chanced to reform?

- - - Updated - - -

"There is then a link from there to the member's thread as it appears to have been a good write up." This is the *EXACT* thread I used!
 
Good morning. I was asked to check in on your thread but only have a minute as my TFP time has been greatly reduced lately via new puppy and ailing father-in-law ;)

There are a few things that may help going forward.
First off, if you used Jacks step stuff initially, please note that it is not sequestrant but is an AA type of product.
Secondly, many sequestrants don’t work well in a SWG pool due to the high tds of salt.

What did you use? For salt, try Jacks purple, though I’ve found that Metal Magic works fine in my salt pool. What brand and specific type did you use? They’re not all equal imho.

But none of them will last long if the ppm of Metal is too high. For this reason, dilution of the concentration is just about always better when youre not on well. The trick is to determine the source of Metal...when it started, any corrosion or fertilization of yard, etc. Also check your bonding wires, that they’re connected etc. because the galvanic process of swg can exacerbate.

Next topic is how long sequestrant works...high FC will break it down fast, so elevating your FC to slam back in the beginning would have worn any down. If you slam, you always have to replenish sequestrant after.

Best way forward depends a bit on what caused the elevated metals in the first place. If it’s in your city water, the prefiltering may help. If it’s corrosion, remedy and dilution may work. If you post back a bit more detail I will try to have a closer read tomorrow and help you work up a plan!
 
I feel your pain and have dealt with the same issues that you are going through. It seems every 3rd or 4th year my pool accumulates dreaded metals. I suspect it’s from my city water just after they go through their flushing of their lines. What works for my SWCG pool is to try to maintain as low chlorine as possible, keep my ph lowish and I use AA when needed on steps and liner. Right now it’s a weekly whitening. IMO sequestrants are expensive and some cheap AA can keep everything looking great. I just add when needed.

Good luck, I know it drives me nuts too.
 
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