Sand Filter needs backwashing OFTEN, could i have gunk?

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
help needed to kill funk

billyjoeraybob said:
plsbcheap please do yourself a favor and get yourself a good drop based test kit. Either the TF-100 from www.tftestkits.com or the Taylor K-2006. There is no substitute for accurate testing. You can't rely on the pool store. Once you get a kit post your numbers and we will help you get a a beautiful sparkling clear pool in no time.
Thanks for the advice and I agree. I initially bought one at the beginning of last year and at the end of the summer I loaned it to a friend and am waiting on him to give it back! I sure can't wait on anything with the algae growing right now and need to get this going today. I just went to the pool store and even though I doubt her work is perfect :shock: these are the results today:

FC=0.0
CC= I don't know how to get this - do I need to know it?
pH=7.6
Alk=120
CYA=20 (I wonder how this went up from 0?)
CH=140
Phosphates=0
Salt=2800

Monday's results were:
FC=0.5
CC=don't know how to get this
pH=7.8
Alk=120
CYA=0
CH=140
Phosphates=100
Salt=3000

Should I go ahead and backwash again and scrap (or check the sand for stuff sitting on top) before adding the CYA? Should I throw it in 3 socks all 9lbs at once?


Again, from the pool calc there is a NOTE: Note: Dichlor and trichlor add CYA and lower PH. Does that mean if I use powder shock Dichlor (where do you get Trichlor cause it will be less volume 5lbs vs 8lb) it will automatically raise my CYA?

Also if I use Hypo Cal it will add Calcium Hardness? That would be a nice benefit and it will only take 6 lbs at $4 or $24 total. This I am told should be desolved in a bucket of water so it doesn't hurt the liner.... Now the question is how often will I keep adding the powders to keep it at 20 FC for 24 hours? Vs. How often to I keep adding bleach? Bleach would initial be 8 gallons (8X$2=$16).
 

branchop

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May 27, 2008
79
North Carolina
Re: Sand Filter needs backwashing OFTEN, i have gunk How 2 rid?

plsbcheap said:
my water is looking much "greener" today. Getting cloudy. Oh and the Clorox was $4 for a 1.42 gallon jug at HomeDepot. Still that is going to cost about $85 for 30 gallons. Is that the best way to do it? Is the "outdoor" Clorox much stronger and/or is it cheaper to shock with the "Shock plus" powder?
Thanks,
Dwight
Ok - I am such a newbie that I probably should not be responding at all but I have to say "Get thee to a Wal-Mart!" The 1.76 gal jugs are $2.28 and the Clorox is $2.76 (in NC)

From what I understand the plainer the better for all pool chemicals. I looked the Clorox line all up online the other night, and the "special" Clorox bleaches have some additives that may not be friendly to your pool. You may also want to look into your pool store for the 12% bleach, excuse me, liquid chlorine. But from what I have read here, it is about the same, price wise.
 

JasonLion

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Chlorine comes in many forms, bleach, trichlor tablets, granular dichlor, cal-hypo powder, and so on. You could use cal-hypo for a while but eventually your CH level will get too high. Vinyl pools don't mind the CH level being low, but they can have problems if the calcium level is too high. The cal-hypo will very likely be more expensive than bleach, but it will be much simpler to carry.

For day to day use chlorine is most commonly added once a day in the evening. You can add chlorine at other times if that is a problem for you, but evening is best.
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
JasonLion said:
Chlorine comes in many forms, bleach, trichlor tablets, granular dichlor, cal-hypo powder, and so on. You could use cal-hypo for a while but eventually your CH level will get too high. Vinyl pools don't mind the CH level being low, but they can have problems if the calcium level is too high. The cal-hypo will very likely be more expensive than bleach, but it will be much simpler to carry.

For day to day use chlorine is most commonly added once a day in the evening. You can add chlorine at other times if that is a problem for you, but evening is best.
JasonLion,
Thanks that helps. What is the best CH # for a vinyl pool? I have been letting it run low and not wasting the money but if I use Cal-hypo for this shock... what is the range I don't want to excede for CH? Also I remember that one of the numbers (maybe CYA) was different for vinyl and gunite/plaster/pebbletech pools. Do you remember which water test is different for liner pools?

I think I can add the Cal-hypo 73% for about $24 (6lbsx$4) to get me to the FC "20" level to shock. That will raise my CH level and then go to the bleach to keep the 20 level up. Will the Cal-hypo AND/OR Dichlor / Tricholor need to be added 2x+ a day to keep it at 20 FC too? This is getting a bit confusing. But if I did the Dichlor instead of bleach initially it would also add CYA which would be good, right? The Dichlor will cost me about $33. What to do? :?
Thanks,
Dwight
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
branchop said:
Ok - I am such a newbie that I probably should not be responding at all but I have to say "Get thee to a Wal-Mart!" The 1.76 gal jugs are $2.28 and the Clorox is $2.76 (in NC)

From what I understand the plainer the better for all pool chemicals. I looked the Clorox line all up online the other night, and the "special" Clorox bleaches have some additives that may not be friendly to your pool. You may also want to look into your pool store for the 12% bleach, excuse me, liquid chlorine. But from what I have read here, it is about the same, price wise.
I check and GA pools stores say they can't sell liquid chlorine. He said "did you hear that in Florida". Which I actually have a friend in FL that uses liquid. Thanks
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
I have to leave the house for a few hours. I have suspended six lbs. of CYA in socks in the pool. I cleaned all of the junk/gunk on top of the sand I could get to. What should I do next? Pour bleach into the skimmer?

Thanks,
Dwight
 

JasonLion

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CH can be anywhere between 0 and 300 in a vinyl pool without a spa.

While you are shocking the pool you want to check the FC level and add more chlorine to bring things up to shock level as frequently as possible, up to once per hour, particularly right at first.
 

duraleigh

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Clearing that green pool is gonna' be very difficult without a good quality kit that can test FC above 20+ppm and also test for CYA.
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
duraleigh said:
Clearing that green pool is gonna' be very difficult without a good quality kit that can test FC above 20+ppm and also test for CYA.
Dave,
I am going out right now to try and get my test kit back so I can be accurate on the 20 FC. Should I pour the bleach directly into the skimmer? Slowly? all 8 gallons at once with pump on high / low what? I did the sock thing you suggested. When I came home a minute ago it doesn't look like much of the CYA made it out of the socks yet. It is really mushy and when you move or shake the socks in the water it clouds out big. So should I squeeze them or shake the cya out? If I don't move them around I think it is going to take a LONG time to just seep out.

Can you also reply to these question from my early post?

your #2 suggestion: I thought I was suppose to add it to the skimmer? I don't want to backwash at all after I start this right? Won't I loose the CYA if I do?
your #3: put the bleach in the pool and not in the filter? Keep it running over night? or shut if off, what?

The pool water actually looks okay. It is the concern with all the junk on top of the sand I was wondering about. I mean I don't have a swamp here but I appreciate the help because I want to avoid bad water which may be on the way. Also, I assume NO swimming for a while.

I'll need 6 lbs of CYA to get it to 50. So 3 socks full of CYA at once floating around in the pool? None in the skimmmer? How to best get it to seep out of the socks?

I don't understand the difference in all the choices from the calculator....
"or add by weight or by volume of trichlor, dichlor, cal-hypo 48%, cal-hypo 65%, cal-hypo 73%..." 5 choices of chemicals?
Note: Dichlor and trichlor add CYA and lower PH. Cal-hypo adds CH. (does this mean if I put in Dichlor and trichlor it will raise the CYA and lower PH? and Cal-hypo adds Calcium Hardness? My CH is only 140. From something I read in the past on this great forum I believe most don't worry about CH for a vinyl pool. Is that right? What should I use?
JasonLion answered the CH question by saying 0-300 but I do have a spa that is fiberglass, Is that still okay?


Thanks,
Dwight
 

JasonLion

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Does the spa share water with the pool or is it separate? If it shares water you should list it in your signature. If the spa shares water with the pool then CH should be between 150 and 300.

I add bleach by pouring slowly in front of a return with the pump running. Pouring slowly into a skimmer also works. You want to add chlorine all at once. Just about every other chemical should be added in steps, perhaps 2/3rds to start and more the next day after testing again. But when shocking chlorine needs to be added relatively quickly. In this context quickly means in the same half hour, pour slowly!

You should run the pump 24/7 until everything is cleaned up.

Let the CYA dissolve slowly. You can squeeze the socks if you want.

Don't worry about all the forms of chlorine listed in the calculator. Pick one kind, either bleach or cal-hypo, and then just ignore all the others. I recommend bleach, it is simpler to deal with (except for the carrying). With all of the others you need to keep track of more things at the same time and it just gets confusing.
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
JasonLion said:
Does the spa share water with the pool or is it separate? If it shares water you should list it in your signature. If the spa shares water with the pool then CH should be between 150 and 300.

I add bleach by pouring slowly in front of a return with the pump running. Pouring slowly into a skimmer also works. You want to add chlorine all at once. Just about every other chemical should be added in steps, perhaps 2/3rds to start and more the next day after testing again. But when shocking chlorine needs to be added relatively quickly. In this context quickly means in the same half hour, pour slowly!

You should run the pump 24/7 until everything is cleaned up.

Let the CYA dissolve slowly. You can squeeze the socks if you want.

Don't worry about all the forms of chlorine listed in the calculator. Pick one kind, either bleach or cal-hypo, and then just ignore all the others. I recommend bleach, it is simpler to deal with (except for the carrying). With all of the others you need to keep track of more things at the same time and it just gets confusing.
Thanks JasonLion,
I just got my test kit back! PTL
I also picked up some 6% bleach so I will add 8 gallons according to the pool calculator to go from 0 to 20. When I wake up I will test the FC and figure out how much bleach to put back in to get it to 20 again. Then periodically thru the day do the same thing. That is my plan until someone tells me something else. I assume I am holding the 20 FC for 24 hours or so? Back last year RangeBall suggested shutting everything off, draining the filter and filling it with bleach and letting it stand for 12 hours. I guess that is not recommended here but my filter is the main issue. I decided to add all this to last years thread but maybe I should have started a new one because a few things are different. This all started because:

:-D I decided to add CYA to get me to 40 or 50.
:shock: Before I did I decided to backwash good and take a peak at my sand.
:evil: I saw all the floating brown stuff sitting on top as pictured in my 3rd photo. The photo 1 &2 are after I sifted it off the top.
:oops: I didn't get 100% of the junk but I tried.
:roll: My water was a tad cloudy and starting to green a little so I decided to ask about cleaning the gunk on the filter again.
:?: Will this SHOCK dissolve all the rest of the Crud in the sand?
Many thanks, I am going to add my bleach at midnight!
Dwight

Oh yea, my spa and pool share the same water, filter and pump. they alternate to clean or I just cycle the spa water into the pool. Why does the CH go up with a fiberglass spa? Or actually why is CH needed in a spa? I do have a few rocks that the spa dumps onto when I am in water fall mode and I know the CH affects the rocks and mortar but that is not an everyday thing. How do I say in my signature that they share? I will try now.
 

JasonLion

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Calcium helps prevent foaming in any spa. Calcium is also recommended for fiberglass to help protect the gelcoat and to help reduce metal staining.
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
test kit question

Dave, Bill and JasonLion, + anyone else who can help?
I got my test kit last night back. I put in the CYA and 8 gallons of bleach as directed by the pool calculator to get me to 20 FC. Now I have a slight problem. My test kit is a K2005 Complete [high] not a K2006. I can't see how to test for FC above 5 with the kit. Is that not possible with the K2005 or is there a trick to do it? Thanks for the help on getting me cleaned up and sparkling.

I assume that I just keep it at 20 FC for (how long?) and then adjust all the other #s to balance the pool. With my pool setup (in my sign) what are the ideal #s for each catagory in your opinions?
FC=?
CC=don't know how to get this
pH=7.?
Alk=???
CYA=??
CH=???
Phosphates=???
Salt=????
 

JasonLion

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You can use dilution to test for higher levels, but it is far less precise. Dilute one part of pool water with three parts of distilled water, or some other water known not to contain any chlorine, then multiply the result by four. It is much much better to have the FAS-DPD chlorine test, which comes in the Taylor K-2006 and is also available separately.

Ideal levels vary based on many factors, including your current test results. For a discussion of some of the issues involved see this article. If you post your current test results we can make suggestions.
 

plsbcheap

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2007
75
So far so good...

[Edit: To remove large bold font: jjparrish]

I am still dissolving the CYA slowly. From my reading on this forum, as the CYA goes up the FC needs to be higher to provide the shock value. That is probably why Dave, Jason and others suggested to start at 20 FC so as my CYA increases I won't need to raise the FC, just sustain it.

I will check my chemicals this morning about 11:00 and repost for suggestions.

I need to know:

How long will I keep FC at 20?
As the day brightens with sun do you expect that I will be pouring in a gallon of bleach an hour to keep up the FC to 20?
Do I stop adding the CYA at 40 and just leave it? Last year someone had me run my CYA at 100. Now that seems high to me after reading a while on the forum. Is 40 a good number to keep the CYA at for a vinyl pool with SWG like mine?
Thanks,
Dwight
 

duraleigh

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Dwight,

I'm going to repeat Jasons' criteria again just to emphasize them:

The process is complete when:
A. You hold FC loss to 1.0 or less overnite
B. Your CC's test .5 or less
C. Your water is sparkling

(PS - Big letters makes me feel like somebody is shouting at me... :shock: )