Replacing SWG

[SoonerSwimmer]

I moved into a home with a new to me pool very recently. I've taken over the testing and chemistry in the last few weeks and am getting the hang of things. The pool has an old Astral E35 SWG (control box has 5 leds not an LCD like the pics I find online) system with a series 9 chlorinator. Long story short I'm not getting any chlorine output from the system and I've been maintaining the pool with liquid chlorine. Both the control box and cell are dated summer of 2017. I believe I need a new system.

The pool guy that's been helping me with equipment questions is offering to install a Jandy Tru Clear system. Based on my research here I believe that to be criminally undersized for my pool. Right now my pool is consuming about 2.5-3ppm of chlorine a day. It's 35k gallons and gets full sun. I believe the bigger Jandy AquaPure is probably also undersized.

I have a very old Jandy RS automation system so I plan to run the SWG system in isolation just wired into the single speed pump. This is how the current Astral system is set up.

The pool guy also suggested a pentair IC system which seems like it's much more expensive than the comparably sized circupool rj system I see talked about in these forums.

He's adamant that I don't need a system rated for 45k or 60k gallons but I believe in the TFP method of oversizing this component. If I'm going to use a SWG I don't want to have to be dosing a gallon of chlorine a day also...

I'm honestly leaning towards CircuPool RJ60 but it gives me a bit of hesitation that it isn't from one of the "big three" pool brands. That seems to be a common product line on the forums, but what am I not considering by going away from jandy/pentair/hayword.

In terms of purchasing from an online retailer like discount salt or the manufacturer what are some things I could consider? The price difference is relatively close right now.

 

[Flying Tivo]

With most brand going larger does not mean double the price, so if money is not a big concern then go for a larger size which will help in the long run on ease of maintenance. Im a pentair guy with automation.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

One of the things that's giving me hesitation about the circupool is that while it's not in the budget to upgrade automation right now, I could imagine updating that in the future. I'm concerned that if I decide to do that upgrade in 3 or 4 years, and I went with pentair automation, I'll kick myself for not having spent the extra money on the pentair swg now. Lots of "ifs" there of course....

 

[Flying Tivo]

If there is a remote idea of automation, then stick with one brand only.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

One thing is clear...you need to fire your pool guy.

Go with 60k gallon system. Both the Pentair and CircuPool systems are good choices.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

I'm handy enough that I believe I'm capable of taking over the equipment as well, but with the move and work I've been so busy that I don't have the time to take on the equipment install learning curve right now. I've decided I'll pay what seems like exorbitant labor costs to outsource that for now. But I've got some evidence now that I can't necessarily trust the equipment recommendations and need to figure out the "what" on my own.

 

[newdude]

Do you have a spa ? Without one, automation isn't needed. Like at all.

Adjusting the RJ manually once every 2 to 6 weeks is far from a deal breaker

 

[SJPoe]

it's not in the budget to upgrade automation right now, I could imagine updating that in the future.

Just throwing this out there (and risking riling up the automation crowd !!)

What would you automate ? Lets be real - the SWG is pretty much on, or not on...and then, its mostly on because the pump is running, or not on because it's not.
I "automated" mine just with a secondary power sensing setup that determines if the non-automated VSP pump stops, it turns the SWG off. The RaspberryPI, sensor and smart plug together probably cost me less than $150. If I notice the FC is a little down, it's 30 seconds to go push the button to up it a little...

My Heater has a thermostat - it either heats the pool, or it doesn't. I don't really change the heat on the pool much once it's open, but again, it's a 30 second issue if I did. I could've sprung for another $400-500 to get a heater with Wifi...and I'd probably only look at it to see if it matched the wifi-thermometer in the pool...

Now, are there days when I wish I could change the pool pump speed from my phone in the pool rather than walking the 12 steps and pushing the button ? Sure. Could I have spent 3 times as much on a VSP pump that supported RS485 so that I could pick an RPM from a dial...sure. However, $1000 buys a lot of beer too, and after a couple, I don't care so much.

Sometimes I think we have a tendency to automate things just because we can...not necessarily because we need to

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I understand you're desire to stay with one of the major manufacturers. However, I will say that Discount Salt Pool/CircuPool have proven to be responsive and fair in regards to warranty replacement and service. I've only needed two contact them a couple times, but their response was immediate. They are currently running a pretty good special right now. Felipe points out though, if you plan on future Pentair automation, stick with Pentair.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

Do you have a spa ? Without one, automation isn't needed. Like at all.

Adjusting the RJ manually once every 2 to 6 weeks is far from a deal breaker

There is an attached spa, yes (I should put that in my sig).

The current swg is plumbed upstream of the valve controlling the returns to the pool / spa. That is, it would produce in both modes.

I've seen some threads that suggest I need to be worried about over-chlorinating in spa mode. I understand newer automation systems would let me control for that. That sounds nice, but practically speaking, I'm not sure how much we will use the spa, and if we did use it how often we would use it more than an hour or two. In those rare cases where over-chlorination was actually an issue I could just manually turn the SWG off.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

Sometimes I think we have a tendency to automate things just because we can...not necessarily because we need to

Certainly fair, I see that same phenomenon in my line of professional work..

My current automation turns the pump on and off, lets me go between pool/spa mode and can control the heater.

I mentioned above, but in terms of the swg it would just be automation to decrease output in spa mode... do I need that? maybe rarely if I run in spa mode of 6 hours? Can I walk my lazy Rear the 20 yards to the control panel to turn off the SWG, yes...

 

[SJPoe]

I mentioned above, but in terms of the swg it would just be automation to decrease output in spa mode... do I need that? maybe rarely if I run in spa mode of 6 hours? Can I walk my lazy Rear the 20 yards to the control panel to turn off the SWG, yes...

I wired my Circupool RJ-60+ up for 115v, stuck a 3-prong plug on it, and plugged it into a TP-Link/Kasa smart outlet. I can turn the SWG on/off from anywhere in the world via my phone.
The outlet is on a dedicated GFCI breaker, and the second socket is used for the heater - an outside rated in-use box completed the setup.

My 'automation' just talks to the TP-Link/Kasa API and turns off the socket for both SWG and Heater if the pump current-draw shows below 25 watts (i.e. the pump has stalled or is off).

 

[newdude]

There is an attached spa, yes (I should put that in my sig).

You said it, not me.

Ok then automating is *really* helpful anytime you want to use the spa and need to lower the SWG.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

After going back and forth with mental gymnastics I'm leaning towards the rj-60+. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but that's what I'm leaning towards. It seems like great cost for the size. The more I think about past interactions the more frustrated I get with the pool guy. I'm thinking of just doing this myself. I took some rough measurements and believe I can fit the cell in a horizontal run where my existing cell is. I would need to put the flow switch after the cell to get the required straight line run for it unless the mystery black valve ahead of the cell can be moved. I've attached a couple pictures of the return side of my plumbing.





I had assumed that the black valve in front of my existing cell was a check valve between the heater and the cell. But the closer I look at it I think it might be used as the worlds most expensive plumbing support. The pipe coming out of the bottom is capped and looks to just be a support. There is no hole in the pad. Is that what I am seeing here?

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I agree, it doesn't look like that valve is attached to anything. I would remove that and utilize that space for the SWG. Good plan.

 

[newdude]

The pipe coming out of the bottom is capped and looks to just be a support. There is no hole in the pad. Is that what I am seeing here?

Wouldn't be the first time we saw a case of 'that's what the guy had on the truck that day'. Not by a longshot.

Or it was supposed to be a bypass and then they got the memo it didnt need one too late, so they made use out of the screw up.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

Or it was supposed to be a bypass and then they got the memo it didnt need one too late

Is plumbing in a bypass for the SWG something I should consider? I'm not sure I understand the point of it. If I wanted to remove it for the winter I could just use one of the dummy cells?

I was planning to put a check valve after the exit from the heater around the back closer to the heater. I've read it may not be required for SWGs, but I also see the RJ+ series manual shows one between the heater and the swg.

 

[newdude]

I'm not sure I understand the point of it.

Some get caught up in that they can, not if they should.

If I wanted to remove it for the winter I could just use one of the dummy cells?

Yes. Most brands are cheap enough to just buy the kit. Jandy is stupid expensive and I'd be DIY-ing one from unions.

I was planning to put a check valve after the exit from the heater around the back closer to the heater. I've read it may not be required for SWGs, but I also see the RJ+ series manual shows one between the heater and the swg.

They serve no purpose but some heater manufacturers still require them because they classify the SWG as a 'chlorinator' which would leech acid if it was a tab feeder. Even then, the check valve does t stop the acid, it only slows it down.

 

[SoonerSwimmer]

I'm hesitant to declare victory (knock on wood) but I believe I've done it. Last night I finally cut out the old cell and plumbed in the new rj60+ and flow sensor and wired in the control box. I'm not finding any leaks and from what I can tell it's producing chlorine! I need to get it dialed in and do some cord management but I am pumped. After pictures attached!

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Looks great! I love the pipe supports. Most of us, when we install the cell, we put the hump down to prevent air bubbles from forming in the top of the cell. CircuPool recommends it for VS pumps.