Ready to switch from Bioguard to The TFP method - pointers needed

Jump to latest Follow Reply
COBrien said:
Not sure if your first question was answered, so here goes:

Welcome from another BioGuard convert!

Running some numbers in PoolMath, here's what I came up with:

16 oz. (by weight) of BurnOut 3 (57.8% cal-hypo) will:
1. Raise FC by 10 ppm, and
2. Raise CH by 7.9 ppm.

128 oz. (1 gallon) of 8.25% bleach will:
1. Raise FC by 13 ppm

128 oz. of 10% bleach will:
1. Raise FC by 16 ppm

128 oz. of 12.5% bleach will:
1. Raise FC by 20 ppm

How much do you spend (per pound) on your BurnOut? You will probably spend between $2.00 and $3.00 for a gallon of grocery store (8.25%) bleach, and can probably find 10% bleach for around $2.00 per gallon. PLUS you aren't adding to your CH when you chlorinate with bleach.

Keeping your FC levels at the appropriate level for your CYA/stabilizer will make BackUp or any other algaecide unnecessary. Keeping your other water chemistry in check with Muriatic Acid, Baking Soda, and Borax will render other BioGuard products unnecessary, as well.

Trust me, the last 3 summers I spent between $60 and $180 per weekend in the local pool store buying BioGuard products. Now I'm adding 2 quarts (1/2 gallon) of 10% liquid chlorine daily, and adjusting pH with Muriatic Acid every couple days (~24-32 oz. each time). I have to increase my Total Alkalinity just a bit with Baking Soda each weekend.

All told, it now costs me about $1.50 per day to keep my pool sparkling and, well, trouble-free. Compare that to $10+ per day using "the pool store way," and it's a considerable savings. Plus, I actually know what I'm putting in my pool and, more importantly, why I'm putting it in there.
Click to expand...

^^^^ :goodpost: ^^^^
 
Folks, we've survived our first Bleach application! That said, it's been so hot and sunny today in northern nj that my chlorine may have evaporated quicker than normal.
Question - how long does the pump need to run after adding bleach? I need to add half gallon of bleach tonight but the pump stops at 8pm (it runs 8 to 8). Or should I wait until morning when the pump starts? Pls advise. Thanks!
 
Thanks Richard. Did just that. Easy-peazy!

I bought bleach at Walmart.
So I know for the future, where do I find and what brands for soda ash or borax, or baking soda? I looked around in the detergent section but did not come across either. Also, muriatic acid - is that something to get at the pool store?

Thanks again folks!
 
quentin_1 said:
Thanks Richard. Did just that. Easy-peazy!

I bought bleach at Walmart.
So I know for the future, where do I find and what brands for soda ash or borax, or baking soda? I looked around in the detergent section but did not come across either. Also, muriatic acid - is that something to get at the pool store?

Thanks again folks!
Click to expand...
Borax and Washing Soda are usually hidden on the very top or very bottom shelf in the laundry area. Check the Target and Walmart pages to see which stores near you stock it. Baking Soda is Baking Soda. Brand is immaterial. Sometimes you find big boxes and bags at Walmart. I've seen big bags of it at Costco, by the flour and sugar. Muriatic Acid can come from pool store or hardware store. Sometimes by the pool stuff, sometimes in paint section by all the cleaners and thinners. Pay attention to the strength. Lowes sells 31% and half-strength "low fuming" for the same price!!

Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
 
Folks, my latest comment/observation is this: I seem to be way off when I test for chlorine using the tf100 basic test vs. the more comprehensive test where I mix the dry powder and then count the drops until the liquid turns transparent from initial pink. I measured my FC today at 4.5 using the more comprehensive test vs. "matched" color level of 2ppm on the basic test. Can I be that much off? What can I possibly be doing wrong? My cya is 60.

My other observation - since I switched to bleach - is that I've been adding about 60oz of 8.25% bleach each day to my 20k gallon pool (this equates to about 2ppm of FC that I am adding). Is that a "normal rate" for my size pool? Lately it's been very sunny and warm so that may explain some if this.

Thanks!
 
Color comparisons, especially with OTO, can be very variable. When I used OTO, it always registered lower than what the DPD-FAS test showed.

As for chlorine consumption, a pool with good sun all day long and minimal bather and environmental load can easily lose 2-3ppm per day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Color comparisons, especially with OTO, can be very variable. When I used OTO, it always registered lower than what the DPD-FAS test showed.

As for chlorine consumption, a pool with good sun all day long and minimal bather and environmental load can easily lose 2-3ppm per day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

^Agreed.

I've never been good at those comparator tests... Especially the OTO Chlorine test, where it's just different shades of yellow. The pH test is easier to determine, IMO, since the comparator ranges from yellow to orange to red/pink.

That's why I just do my daily checks with the FAS-DPD chlorine test. Much easier for me to tell when the pink disappears.

Also, for reference, my pool (CYA of 40 ppm) loses approx. 2 ppm FC per day on very sunny days, with no one using it.

EDIT: I'm adding 64 oz. of 10% chlorine daily (sunny days, hovering around 100°F). I've found, with 25,000 gallons, every 16 oz. (pint) of 10% chlorine gets me 0.5 ppm FC.
 
Last edited:
Thanks all for confirming that the basic test can be unreliable. I guess one can get used to how to use it (i.e. if I get 2ppm on the basic test - that may equate to 4.5ppm on the more comprehensive test).

I'd also like to ask a couple of follow up questions:
1. Adding bleach to the water - why is the bleach recommended to be added by the water returns whereas granular shock is added in the deep end of the pool?
2. For the FAS-DPD test - is there an alternative source for the DPD powder (R-0870)? The container that comes with a tf100 is very small (I ordered replacement already from nice folks at the tftests.com). Do the pool stores carry this powder?
3. Nearest pool store by me carries liquid chlorine 35% strength, gallon priced at $6.95. I don't believe I saw this strength chlorine discussed. It would be great in terms of having such potent chlorine. I am concerned how to add such potent chlorine to the water? Do I need to dilute it with water or do I just pour it in as regular bleach? Lastly on this point - in my 20k gallon pool - how can I be sure that 30oz of 35% chlorine gets mixed in evenly in this much water? Does my deep end have less (or more) chlorine than the shallow end?

Thanks again. Enjoy your weekend everyone!
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
quentin_1 said:
Thanks all for confirming that the basic test can be unreliable. I guess one can get used to how to use it (i.e. if I get 2ppm on the basic test - that may equate to 4.5ppm on the more comprehensive test).

I'd also like to ask a couple of follow up questions:
1. Adding bleach to the water - why is the bleach recommended to be added by the water returns whereas granular shock is added in the deep end of the pool?
2. For the FAS-DPD test - is there an alternative source for the DPD powder (R-0870)? The container that comes with a tf100 is very small (I ordered replacement already from nice folks at the tftests.com). Do the pool stores carry this powder?
3. Nearest pool store by me carries liquid chlorine 35% strength, gallon priced at $6.95. I don't believe I saw this strength chlorine discussed. It would be great in terms of having such potent chlorine. I am concerned how to add such potent chlorine to the water? Do I need to dilute it with water or do I just pour it in as regular bleach? Lastly on this point - in my 20k gallon pool - how can I be sure that 30oz of 35% chlorine gets mixed in evenly in this much water? Does my deep end have less (or more) chlorine than the shallow end?

Thanks again. Enjoy your weekend everyone!
Click to expand...

1. You add any chemical in such a way to promote to the most amount of mixing. Liquids should be added slowly over fast moving returns so that the water coming out of the return mixes with it and solid granular stuff is added to the deep end and then brushed about to promote mixing in the largest volume of water possible.

2. No, most pool stores do not carry the R-0870 powder. You can order refills online at TFTestkits OR larger amounts on Amazon. I think I've see very large amount on Amazon. Be careful though, the powder has a finite lifetime so you don't want to keep too much of it sitting around.

3. That is not liquid chlorine but more likely muriatic acid (31.45%). Liquid chlorine at concentrations above 15% will degrade very rapidly and fume chlorine gas and oxygen badly. I don't believe you can even concentrate sodium hypochlorite that much without it becoming a serious hazard.
 
Thanks.

I am disappointed - went to the store and the liquid chlorine they have is 10% at $6.95,or more than twice the walmart price while 2.5% weaker! They said "we thought it was higher". I felt being played by the pool store, again.

I guess I need to go to walmart or target tonight to buy some more bleach!

Regards
 
quentin_1 said:
Thanks.

I am disappointed - went to the store and the liquid chlorine they have is 10% at $6.95,or more than twice the walmart price while 2.5% weaker! They said "we thought it was higher". I felt being played by the pool store, again.

I guess I need to go to walmart or target tonight to buy some more bleach!

Regards
Click to expand...

That's what you call a Bait'n'Switch. They're lucky they did verbal over the phone and claimed to make a mistake otherwise, in print, it's illegal to do that. Now you know why pool stores get such a bad rap here on TFP.

Walmart brand is usually the best value for the price and percentage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hello everyone!
I wanted to provide an update and share my experience switching to using Bleach.
In one word, it has been a life changer! I haven't had a cleaner pool, and I have not had a single problem all summer! (Knock on wood). All I did was add bleach daily and nothing else. I did test and measure the levels every day to ensure I am in the range of course.

Thanks everyone for your help, words of encouragement, and detailed instructions!

I've scheduled my pool closing for September 12th, so my next step in my pool saga would be to consider closing the pool by myself. That would save me about $600 bucks! I assume that closing and opening the pool on my own is a lot more difficult, and that fewer people do it themselves.

Thanks again everyone who helped out!
 
There are many considerations when it comes to closing your pool. It is very possible to do it yourself. With the help and insights of the folks here of course.

Can you please update your sig. With your pool particulars it's a lot easier to offer good suggestions. :)
 
quentin_1 said:
Hello everyone!
I wanted to provide an update and share my experience switching to using Bleach.
In one word, it has been a life changer! I haven't had a cleaner pool, and I have not had a single problem all summer! (Knock on wood). All I did was add bleach daily and nothing else. I did test and measure the levels every day to ensure I am in the range of course.

Thanks everyone for your help, words of encouragement, and detailed instructions!

I've scheduled my pool closing for September 12th, so my next step in my pool saga would be to consider closing the pool by myself. That would save me about $600 bucks! I assume that closing and opening the pool on my own is a lot more difficult, and that fewer people do it themselves.

Thanks again everyone who helped out!
Click to expand...
Thanks for stopping in and letting us know how you are doing. It is nice to get feedback from a member.

Depending on how handy you are I understand that opening/closing are well within the abilities of home handypersons. Now, living in the south I never close mine so I'm not sure how much help I might be.
 
Thanks for coming back to let us know how things went this summer. So glad you stuck with it and it's paying off.

On closing: I still have the nearby pool company close my pool for me despite hating it every time. I like the peace of mind that they have to close it properly and it shifts some liability off of me. I really only worry about getting lines blown out properly and getting some RV antifreeze in the lines. I'm sure I could do it, but have not taken that leap yet. I may try it with my blower this year and see how it goes and if things don't go well, have them close it. I specifically tell them not to put any chemicals in my pool as they normally do for closing. I take care of that.

On opening: Opening is easy. Just putting everything back to operation mode. Putting plugs back in pump, filter, removing return and skimmer plugs, filling with water, turning on breakers then firing things up. That I would suggest doing yourself.
 
Thanks.
Joel - I may go your route and open the pool myself rather than close it. Perhaps I will watch the pool company do it once and then attempt to do it myself! My pool guy may not be happy, however! Also, he takes my filter away for the winter and "cleans" it, he says.
Another issue is the pool cover - may be hard to pull it off myself. Lol. Perhaps I just let them do it and just stick to maintaining the pool myself.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply