Proteam Supreme Plus raised TA

BluePool78

Member
Dec 31, 2017
11
Rochester, MI
Hi there and thanks in advance for reading and commenting on this post.

Reading all of the positive impacts from having borates in the pool, I decided to add the Proteam Supreme Plus to get to 50 ppm. I know this is a more expensive route, but I was looking for easy and this solution would seem to scratch that itch. My plan is to raise from 0 ppm borates to about 50 ppm, which should be about three 45 Lbs buckets for our pool of about 35-40K gallons.

I'm a bit of a testing nerd and test regularly with LaMotte ColorQ Liquid testing kit. Prior to adding any Proteam Supreme Plus my chemistry was as follows:

FC - 3.2
CC - 0.0
pH - 7.5
TA - 90
CH - 350
Salt - 3,200
The water is crystal clear.

Following the addition of the first 45 Lbs bucket and letting my pool do its thing for a couple of days (VSP runs 24/7 at various speeds) plus the in-floor cleaning system a few hours a day) I got the following results:

TA - 166 (this blew my mind)
pH - 7.7 (not surprising, we tend to drift up with kids swimming and SWCG)
Other parameters were essentially the same. The water is crystal clear.

I called the technical sales rep who was extremely nice, he said to allow two weeks for the chemistry to settle out and do nothing for that amount of time.

Does anyone understand why I am seeing this huge jump in TA (apparently from adding the Proteam Supreme Plus) ?
Is there an equilibrium that needs to be reached that I am just unaware?
Has anyone else had this similar experience with this product?
If so...what the heck did you do?

Thank you in advance, JPB
 

BluePool78

Member
Dec 31, 2017
11
Rochester, MI
Hi there and thanks in advance for reading and commenting on this post.

Reading all of the positive impacts from having borates in the pool, I decided to add the Proteam Supreme Plus to get to 50 ppm. I know this is a more expensive route, but I was looking for easy and this solution would seem to scratch that itch. My plan is to raise from 0 ppm borates to about 50 ppm, which should be about three 45 Lbs buckets for our pool of about 35-40K gallons.

I'm a bit of a testing nerd and test regularly with LaMotte ColorQ Liquid testing kit. Prior to adding any Proteam Supreme Plus my chemistry was as follows:

FC - 3.2
CC - 0.0
pH - 7.5
TA - 90
CH - 350
Salt - 3,200
The water is crystal clear.

Following the addition of the first 45 Lbs bucket and letting my pool do its thing for a couple of days (VSP runs 24/7 at various speeds) plus the in-floor cleaning system a few hours a day) I got the following results:

TA - 166 (this blew my mind)
pH - 7.7 (not surprising, we tend to drift up with kids swimming and SWCG)
Other parameters were essentially the same. The water is crystal clear.

I added the other two 45 Lbs buckets and after five days, my retested numbers are the following:

FC - 3.8
CC - 0.0
pH – 8.0 (not surprising, we tend to drift up with kids swimming and SWCG)
TA - 213
CH - 333
Salt - 3,200
The water is crystal clear.
I confirmed the test results at a pool store and with a Taylor test kit.

Nothing else has been added to my pool.

I called the technical sales rep who was extremely nice, he said to allow two weeks for the chemistry to settle out and do nothing for that amount of time.

Does anyone understand why I am seeing this huge jump in TA (apparently from adding the Proteam Supreme Plus) ?
Is there an equilibrium that needs to be reached that I am just unaware?
Has anyone else had this similar experience with this product?
If so...what the heck did you do?

I am religious about keeping my CSI in tight control about 0 and with these numbers I am at 0.66! I have never been above 0.3 CSI. :(

Thank you in advance, JPB
 

Oly

Gold Supporter
Jun 28, 2017
1,639
Fresno, CA
Some info on an older post.

 

Richard320

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 6, 2010
23,924
San Dimas, CA (LA County)
Proteam Supreme Plus is Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate

Using 40,000 gallons as the volume in poolmath and scrolling down to Effects Of Adding Chemicals, it says 45 lbs (720 ounces) will raise TA by 46. Considering you're testing with a ColorQ, the 76 TA rise isn't outrageously off. Tripling it, to 2160 ounces in 40000 gallons yields 138 TA. Added to your original 90, you should be at 228 TA. You tested at 215. Pretty close. That's even within tolerances for a Taylor test. Maybe the test after the first bucket wasn't mixed as well?

What did you think was going to happen? The stuff isn't Boric Acid, which doesn't mess with alkalinity.
 

BluePool78

Member
Dec 31, 2017
11
Rochester, MI
@Oly ...thanks, I had read this post a couple of weeks ago. What I cold not understand is after adding the ProTeam Supreme Plus, did the user add a bunch of acid to bring down their TA or did the TA magically come back into range. The engineer in me does not believe in magic. :) I re-read the post and it looked like they may have added some acid, but it just is not clear. And this is not the recommendation from the manufacturer....but their recommendation is to wait two weeks.....is there some equilibrium that needs two weeks to occur? It all is very frustrating.....ugh.....
 

BluePool78

Member
Dec 31, 2017
11
Rochester, MI
Proteam Supreme Plus is Sodium Tetraborate Pentahydrate

Using 40,000 gallons as the volume in poolmath and scrolling down to Effects Of Adding Chemicals, it says 45 lbs (720 ounces) will raise TA by 46. Considering you're testing with a ColorQ, the 76 TA rise isn't outrageously off. Tripling it, to 2160 ounces in 40000 gallons yields 138 TA. Added to your original 90, you should be at 228 TA. You tested at 215. Pretty close. That's even within tolerances for a Taylor test. Maybe the test after the first bucket wasn't mixed as well?

What did you think was going to happen? The stuff isn't Boric Acid, which doesn't mess with alkalinity.
@Richard320 ...thanks for your comment. I use the pool math app on my iphone religiously....so now I feel a bit stupid. I guess I did not realize that Proteam Supreme Plus would add so much TA, it did not mention that on the directions. I think I got thrown off when I called their customer support and was told that any TA would be minimal...and to just wait two weeks...I didn't think raising my TA by about 120 ppm to over 200 was minimal...UGH. According to pool math I am going to have to add about nine gallons of acid to get the TA back in range...funny how it does not mention this at all on the directions for ProTeam Supreme Plus. Well....I will add a gallon of 20 Baume acid and keep an eye on pH and TA until I get it back into range...and maybe I will call my local store and get a couple of cases of acid...thanks for pointing me back to poolmath app...embarrassing.
 

Richard320

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 6, 2010
23,924
San Dimas, CA (LA County)
@Richard320 ...thanks for your comment. I use the pool math app on my iphone religiously....so now I feel a bit stupid. I guess I did not realize that Proteam Supreme Plus would add so much TA, it did not mention that on the directions. I think I got thrown off when I called their customer support and was told that any TA would be minimal...and to just wait two weeks...I didn't think raising my TA by about 120 ppm to over 200 was minimal...UGH. According to pool math I am going to have to add about nine gallons of acid to get the TA back in range...funny how it does not mention this at all on the directions for ProTeam Supreme Plus. Well....I will add a gallon of 20 Baume acid and keep an eye on pH and TA until I get it back into range...and maybe I will call my local store and get a couple of cases of acid...thanks for pointing me back to poolmath app...embarrassing.
Just lower pH when it rises. TA will come down fast enough. No special effort needed.
 

JoyfulNoise

TFP Expert
Platinum Supporter
May 23, 2015
17,223
Tucson, AZ
Only add enough acid to reduce the TA in 10ppm increments. That is typically enough acid to drop the pH to the 7.0/7.2 range. Do not go lower than a pH of 7 for equipment and plaster safety reasons.
 

BluePool78

Member
Dec 31, 2017
11
Rochester, MI
Only add enough acid to reduce the TA in 10ppm increments. That is typically enough acid to drop the pH to the 7.0/7.2 range. Do not go lower than a pH of 7 for equipment and plaster safety reasons.
@JoyfulNoise Thanks, you bet. I think the 50-60 ppm borates I have in the pool will buffer the pH some as well. We always have the fountains to aerate I suppose if I got the pH low....going to start at 0.5 gallon acid adds to the deep end and see how far it drops. Poolmath indicates I can go a lot more aggressively, but IME, with pools, nothing happens too fast that is good. :). Thanks again.