Price negotiating?

[Carrie Wright]

Well, pools are not cars. For a new car. they're all the same and you just go with the lowest price you can haggle them down to. A car dealer doesn't do anything to the car, just takes your money and gives you the keys. A pool builder, even if you find one that will discount their price, will likely cut corners to make up the difference. Mostly, they just tell you, "yes, I can cut the price 10% if you forgo Z, Y and Z".

Where skilled (or semi-skilled) labor is concerned, I don't think you really want to p_ss of your builder up front by nickel and diming him. You wouldn't do that to your brain surgeon!

totally agree with you, when it comes to a pool building, it's better not to irritate a builder

 

[Catanzaro]

Anybody haggle with the pool builder on the price of their pool? Any success? I hadn't planned to do this as it may cost me in the end... just curious as to different experiences.

Dapdo:

Instead of trying to negotiate a price, what you want to do is ask questions and get answers (In writing, and I can not emphasize this enough) to your concerns. Most contracts, if not all will and are designed to protect the PB. I had so many issues (well major issues) that even my friend who worked in contract law stated that the PB did not breach the contract. It is not the first pool they built.

You want to make sure that you know everything up front. Ask questions on every detail from the type of plumbing, type of material, if unions will be installed, what type of shut off valves, etc. Also, make sure they do not take all your soil away as you may need it for grading purposes. Most PB's will take 99% of all the funds before you blink your eyes, leaving you with the problems, if any.

Can you provide us with some more details? Without naming PB's, what are you getting and what options. The more specific you are, the better? Are you getting a liner pool? Gunite Pool? What type of construction and what type of support? Thanks!

 

[Dapdo]

Will provide more details when I have the contract in my hot little hands. Will start a build thread hopefully in next 48hrs.

 

[Hoots711]

We started with a budget and a wish list and builders were pretty straight forward about what we could get for our budget.

A&S said they couldnt do it for our budget so we shook hands and left. The emailed a few day later to say they were having a 'sale'.... Yeah right.

One lesson we learned... Do your negotiating on the back half of your project. Things will go wrong. You will probably be lied to by subs or your PB or landscapers (i don't sound jaded do i?). And you will be holding big piles of their cash.

Im not suggesting to be unethical about it... Im just saying that upfront the PB has all the leverage. ALL of it. But when the project progresses and these guys are looking for cash that is when you have the power to at least get what you are paying for or a little extra.

my 2 cents.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

We started with a budget and a wish list and builders were pretty straight forward about what we could get for our budget.

A&S said they couldnt do it for our budget so we shook hands and left. The emailed a few day later to say they were having a 'sale'.... Yeah right.

One lesson we learned... Do your negotiating on the back half of your project. Things will go wrong. You will probably be lied to by subs or your PB or landscapers (i don't sound jaded do i?). And you will be holding big piles of their cash.

Im not suggesting to be unethical about it... Im just saying that upfront the PB has all the leverage. ALL of it. But when the project progresses and these guys are looking for cash that is when you have the power to at least get what you are paying for or a little extra.

my 2 cents.

That’s a risky tactic, a contract is a gateway to litigation.

 

[swimcmp]

As a builder the first red flag that a homeowner is not being 100% honest with me is when they start wanting me to discount a pool. It takes a certain amount of time, materials, skill to set a pool correctly. Where do you want them to skimp on this? I have yet to ever figure that out you want the champagne but you only have beer money.

 

[Dapdo]

As a builder the first red flag that a homeowner is not being 100% honest with me is when they start wanting me to discount a pool. It takes a certain amount of time, materials, skill to set a pool correctly. Where do you want them to skimp on this? I have yet to ever figure that out you want the champagne but you only have beer money.

Had one salesperson tell us that their quote would be lower than even others in the same company because they wanted the business and didn't want to inflate their commission. So there ya go. Perhaps you are unaware as to what others in your industry are doing.
It's not about trying to buy champagne with beer money.

 

[Jravenstine]

I can tell you we saved around $5k-6k by negotiating. (this was on a very big bill to begin with so only was about 5%) They didn't lower any prices but what they did was they structured some items "off contract". I also had to pay those people separately so it was a little bit more out of pocket at certain stages than normal. This was a very large builder. For them to do it this way tells me there is not a lot of room to ever negotiate only to structure contract a certain way.

 

[PoolGate]

As a builder the first red flag that a homeowner is not being 100% honest with me is when they start wanting me to discount a pool. It takes a certain amount of time, materials, skill to set a pool correctly. Where do you want them to skimp on this? I have yet to ever figure that out you want the champagne but you only have beer money.

Certainly pool builders are not charity organizations so I assume profit is built into every job. That to me would be the negotiable part. Cost + profit. If a builder has 50% profit in their quote, then there would be quite a bit of room for negotiation. If it is only 20%, then quite a bit less room for negotiation. Consumers having other options (other builders) also factors into negotiation. If there is only one builder in town then that builder can charge pretty much what they want. If there are 20 builders, well then that is capitalism in motion. You may get offended at someone trying to negotiate with you on what YOU deem is a fair price, but at the end of the day the point is to get the job, right? If you are busy enough to summarily dismiss all those that wish to negotiate, business must be very good indeed!

 

[ia_soxfan]

Certainly pool builders are not charity organizations so I assume profit is built into every job. That to me would be the negotiable part. Cost + profit. If a builder has 50% profit in their quote, then there would be quite a bit of room for negotiation. If it is only 20%, then quite a bit less room for negotiation. Consumers having other options (other builders) also factors into negotiation. If there is only one builder in town then that builder can charge pretty much what they want. If there are 20 builders, well then that is capitalism in motion. You may get offended at someone trying to negotiate with you on what YOU deem is a fair price, but at the end of the day the point is to get the job, right? If you are busy enough to summarily dismiss all those that wish to negotiate, business must be very good indeed!

Again, I feel that most contractors (myself included, in the trade) that know their overhead and numbers well enough will simply walk away, or work with a number and squeeze every last feature into a project for that number while still maintaining their margins. These tend to be the ones that you'd want to work with. Profit on a project is what grows a business and keeps a business, in business. Negotiating a price without decreasing the scope of a project is a recipe for a disaster down the road, whether while the project is happening or when something goes wrong and the builder is no longer around to repair the issue because he is out of business...full circle.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Again, I feel that most contractors (myself included, in the trade) that know their overhead and numbers well enough will simply walk away, or work with a number and squeeze every last feature into a project for that number while still maintaining their margins. These tend to be the ones that you'd want to work with. Profit on a project is what grows a business and keeps a business, in business. Negotiating a price without decreasing the scope of a project is a recipe for a disaster down the road, whether while the project is happening or when something goes wrong and the builder is no longer around to repair the issue because he is out of business...full circle.

Which trade are you in?

 

[Bloomy125]

My PB I used paid a $25 bounty for each estimate we turned in to them from a competitor.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

My PB I used paid a $25 bounty for each estimate we turned in to them from a competitor.

I am a contract language hoarder, not so interested other’s pricing. Every now and then I stumble on contract poetry..

 

[scdaren]

Interesting thread. As I've done business is different places around the world I've found price negotiation to vary culturally. In some environments price negotiation is assumed and expected, and the first price is never the real price, it's expected to come down. In other places people believe in giving the fair price upfront, and someone asking for a discount is insulting. I see both views playing out in this thread. In the US it seems to usually be the latter, but it varies by industry and can be hard to know. I try to figure that out on a case by case basis, it's more of an art than a science, and can be tricky sometimes.

 

[Dapdo]

For the record I have NOT attempted to negotiate the contract price of our pool! In a business where EVERYTHING I do automatically gets reduced by up to 50% I understand the is real frustration in not getting paid your worth

 

[PoolguyinCT]

For the record I have NOT attempted to negotiate the contract price of our pool! In a business where EVERYTHING I do automatically gets reduced by up to 50% I understand the is real frustration in not getting paid your worth

Before I clicked you user account, the above told me you are MD or independent pharmacy owner, both are in my family..

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Let’s stay focused their is a definitive difference between a discount & a negotiation.

 

[Dapdo]

Let’s stay focused their is a definitive difference between a discount & a negotiation.

Who said anything about a discount? I agree there is a difference but you are kind of coming out of left field there.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Who said anything about a discount? I agree there is a difference but you are kind of coming out of left field there.

I saw the word discount in the thread.. it was not introduced by you, but another contributor above.

I did not mean to be contentious, I am enjoying this thread & insight to buyers perspectives.

Unfortunately tone of voice or disposition isn’t reflected in posts.

Ray

 

[Dapdo]

I saw the word discount in the thread.. it was not introduced by you, but another contributor above.

I did not mean to be contentious, I am enjoying this thread & insight to buyers perspective

Didn't take it as such, was legitimately confused.
What do you do in the pool biz?