Pool's milky green-ness seems VERY stubborn

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Well the other pics were of various details of a green-tinted pool.

Whatever.

Hopefully I can squeeze this 'skimmer basket and filter' pic in?

(Not to say I'm not going to support - just like I'm not NOT going to get myself your TF100 - just not right this minute)

Screenshot_20180606-160142.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

Well the other pics were of various details of a green-tinted pool.

Whatever.

Hopefully I can squeeze this 'skimmer basket and filter' pic in?

(Not to say I'm not going to support - just like I'm not NOT going to get myself your TF100 - just not right this minute)
(The resolution is of course now degraded. The WATER in the skimmer, discounting the floaty bits, looks totally clear (yes?)

Screenshot_20180606-160142.jpg
 
That filter & skimmer pic shows. What is the blue ring? Is that a trichlor puck in there? Why does the skimmer look clear, but the pool water looks green in post #11?

In your post #18, there is an orange liquid in the test comparator block. Is this liquid straight pool water with the OTO drops added or is this 1/3 pool water and 2/3 tap water?
If it is diluted 1/3: 2/3 with dark orange water, then your chlorine is at least between 45-90ppm.

If you have a 6000 gallon pool and you add 256 fl.oz (2 gallons) of 10% bleach, then you are adding 33.5ppm each time. That is in addition to the chlorine that is already in there. Why are you adding so much bleach. At worst case, if your chlorine is zero, it would only take a gallon to raise 16.5ppm. You are only aiming for 18ppm. Don't add any more than a gallon at a time, and probably really only need 1/2 gallon at the most for each dose. You are heavily overchlorinating the pool.
I highly recommend no more chlorine unless you can generate a reasonably accurate chlorine level. Blindly adding bleach like this isn't how the SLAM process is done.
 
I apologize if I've misunderstood things.

The blue in the skimmer is the top end of the filter. The bottom end of the filter JUST sneaks into the pic, on the right.

In the test block Yes it is 1:2 pool:tap, with 5 drops OTO.
Your eyes are clearly far more experienced at judging the colour - especially when off the chart - than mine. :oops::bowdown:

By way of nothing but explanation, and grateful for correction to help me understand better; I believed the pool had around 18 in it yesterday evening. I added 1 gallon. This morning it was back about the same or a tad paler, so 1 gallon (17) was eaten overnight. I was now leaving it for a day and was concerned about the addition of the sun, hence the extra half. Then because I really went at the scrubbing and may have loosened more I was more concerned again, hence the second half making the 2 gallons.
I guess I was overestimating. By quite a bit. I've just been so determined to not let it drop too near to - and NOT below at all costs - 18 for fear of regrowth after all this.

I am ashamed to have been getting the SLAM so wrong. I have been too over-eager to kill everything and let the filter do its job so I could present them with a much better looking pool - just waiting to be got sparkly.

:foot:
 
How about we chalk the above up to a good learning experience and move on.
The test block had dark orange liquid in it. This puts it anywhere between 15-30pmm. That would be if the test wasn’t using diluted pool water. But since you did dilute it 1:2 then you have to take the results and multiply by 3 to get 45-90ppm.
So what you thought was 18, was really 3x 18=54ppm estimated very roughly.
The purpose of the SLAM process is to bring chlorine level up (to 18 in your case) and maintain. But you don’t need to bring it significantly over that or it just becomes a waste of chlorine. There isn’t enough CYA to protect it and it is just lost without doing anything useful. The 18 takes into account some leeway for drop between doses, but it’s better to dose many times in small consistent additions instead of one HUGE dose. No more dumping more than 1/2 gallon of bleach at a time.
I apologize for jumping the gun with the filter / tab question above. I didn’t recognize that setup.
Let the chlorine drift down until the test is yellow.
I’m just going to say it here for posterity but you really need a FAS-DPD chlorine test.
 
You are so right about the FAS-DPD (TF100 :testkit: being on my wish list asap and hopefully when - if not before - I have a problem myself).

What I interpreted as an 18 was a BADLY underestimated 6 (partly due to huge over-caution about the level dropping unexpectedly), tripled for 18, leading to my addition for the day's sun with the night's loss in mind.

PLEASE this is not argumentative or defensive - just getting it off my chest.

And GRATEFUL much for two things:
A clearer idea how to read colours off the scale, and
The little nugget I didn't know - shock level has a buffer built in for a little dip between retests. I misunderstood that one MUST stay AT OR ABOVE that level at all times.

I will use your guidance given to better estimate the above-scale colours, and then triple according - with less excessive fear I'm reading low and risking re-growth.
 
FYI ... pool store numbers ( :suspect::pukel: ) below:

Zero for copper, iron, 'dissolved solids' ... And 'saturation index of zero :D

For @#*s and giggles they put the cya at 3ppm.

And, for filing in the round one in the corner:
FC 19.59
TC 19.59 (as wrong as me?! - I thought about 18 this morning), but...
CC of course of Zero! (so THEY say)
pH 8.6 (if anywhere near - I was struggling with this not moving at the start (no TA!) and added too much 'borax' (their pH+). Big if!)
TA Zero after I added a pound of baking soda?
CH is irrelevant for vinyl? They claim only 55
 
My official guidance is that a FAS-DPD test is needed to accurately measure FC. ;).

Ok, so you got a FC reading and it’s not huge. Probably. Depending on the test they used.
Good to see no metals.
pH isn’t accurate due to your FC. Not surprised it shows high. Ignore that for now.
Ignore everything else right now. Only focus on chlorine. We can look at the other stuff when the SLAM process is complete. It’s a vinyl pool so CH can float wherever it is.
It’s up to the filter to get the cloudy out and that’s gonna take some time.
 
Oh yeah I totally forgot about pH's misbehaviour when chlorine is high.

And I'm not trusting their 19.59 OR my estimated 18ish.
I only posted their results 'just because'. Not trusting or going on any of them - laughing at cya I read so much against here. Interesting to see what might be that, right in front of my eyes.

As was advised, I only went there to check metals - pleasing result there :)

Good news this evening?
Having worked on the walls and floor more vigorously this morning, I find this afternoon the return of some of the dead cloudy clumps floating scattered across the surface ... and somewhat more to rinse off the filter.
 
Andy, you mentioned you were english. But the way you write, the structure of your sentences, is very unique, and familiar.

I'm not that far from you. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you a shout.
 

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Ok I'll add here instead of a new thread and hope that despite the delay someone picks it up...?

I have read in threads around here about cya being 'eaten', and ammonia, and bacteria, and etc.
And I'm trying to understand it.
But I realise maybe I should hand over to you experts?

Thinking cya doesn't disappear without some kind of pool dilution I have been 'feeding this pool chlorine' and waiting for whatever's in it to stop 'eating' it.

I had one dose of a cya test left available so I was saving that for when this ordeal was over, to let them know, based on their level, how to go ahead and maintain their cleaned and lovely sparkly pool.

But I finally decided to retest it.

The cya test liquid that should obscure the black dot was clear. No fading of the dot for the full height of the tube.

Hmm - another reason to explain why this pool (which now looks very clear if tinted faintly green and depositing muck (although fairly minor) on the cartridge filter) is relentlessly 'eating chlorine.

It's not?
Sun is burning it off instantly due to the mysterious disappearance of cya?
Or is it being lost to this bacteria/ammonia factor?
(When I read those threads I was concerned because when I started here I had zero FC which seemed a key element in those tales of woe (and I also had zero pH and zero TA) - only thing that didn't look like a disaster was the cya THEN reading 40).

Like I said - I've been trying to piece together the ammonia thing but I hope you'll not mind my asking since this is not my pool I'm trying to 'fix'.

Help?

Start:
Cya 40; FC, pH, and TA all zero.
Dark green impenetrable swamp.
Added 'pH up' in vain (since I later read about the zero TA screwing with pH?)
Added 1lb baking soda to this 6000 AT 'pool-in-a-box' type pool.

Now:
Cya zero, not worth measuring pH, and chlorine relentlessly consumed/lost.
Wonderfully clear and see-thru though! If not exactly 'gin clear' - mild haze(?) and light green tint.
 
Oh - and been working more vigorously on the walls and floor after earlier advice and other reading here (which I thought was explaining the increased and protracted reduction in chlorine levels ... and I'm sure to at least some degree at first it WAS (?) )
 
While I understand the financial situation of the pool owner, I just don't see how anyone expects to complete a SLAM with an OTO chlorine test.

What is the plan for the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test? You can't accurately measure a less than 1ppm drop in FC using OTO, especially at the FC levels being used that are well outside of the OTO's capability and accuracy?

Same goes for the CC level? It is impossible to detect a 0.5ppm climb to TC with an OTO test, especially at the FC levels used for the SLAM.
 
Andy, I have serious doubts about the testing. CYA doesn’t drop to zero unless all the water is replaced. The test isn’t too good below 20ppm of CYA though. Your question of ammonia might have more relevance if it wasn’t for the atomic levels of chlorine you got up to. Chlorine and ammonia really don’t play well together. If you can keep chlorine in the water, ammonia isn’t present.
Also, if you have been consistent with the chlorine for the last week ( and multiple weeks before that), the green should be long gone.
At this point, we need good tests to see where you are. Also, a pic of the pool would be helpful. Put the brush in the water so we can get an idea of clarity.
 
I know this is not a complete answer or ideal situation - and I hope to get my own TF100 soon which I will use to help their situation - but while I am of course using a rough-and-ready 1:2 pool:tap dilution with the OTO, is it fair to say that if that appears to show an overnight drop in the order of 20-30ppm FC then something is going on, that suspicion perhaps bolstered by the discovery of a cya of zero that was 40 at the start?

I am GENUINELY not trying to argue/not listen to the advice I straight-up asked for, and would love this to not be anything weird or crazy.

Is a blatant dark orange after the sun had left the pool yesterday, then a pretty obvious yellow (though dark, still yellower than orange) today after maybe an hour or so of sun, a sign that something besides the sun is causing the chlorine measure to divebomb?
 
AndyPTx said:
I know this is not a complete answer or ideal situation - and I hope to get my own TF100 soon which I will use to help their situation - but while I am of course using a rough-and-ready 1:2 pool:tap dilution with the OTO, is it fair to say that if that appears to show an overnight drop in the order of 20-30ppm FC then something is going on, that suspicion perhaps bolstered by the discovery of a cya of zero that was 40 at the start?

I am GENUINELY not trying to argue/not listen to the advice I straight-up asked for, and would love this to not be anything weird or crazy.

Is a blatant dark orange after the sun had left the pool yesterday, then a pretty obvious yellow (though dark, still yellower than orange) today after maybe an hour or so of sun, a sign that something besides the sun is causing the chlorine measure to divebomb?
Click to expand...

The half life of chlorine in the water is not a linear scale, as you get higher and higher above the ‘buffering’ of the CYA, the FC loss becomes greater. Also, using the OTO test outside of its intended range, and with dilution as well, will increase it’s margin of error.

The best thing that you can do now is get at least the FAS/DPD chlorine test. Without it you are just wasting time and money.
 
Dave, you did tell me, and I'm so sorry, I hate that I appear to have just totally ignored you. I have been at a loss as to what to do because I can't check as often as I want or need to without moving in and camping in their back yard (I don't mean to be sarcastic there). I cut back the chlorine after you said that, but then the levels seemed very low whenever I returned to recheck - way below the 18 shock that relates to the 40 cya I first measured with the 6-way hth kit.
I didn't know what to do except to add enough chlorine for the level to have not dropped away before I could get back, especially overnight where I thought/hoped neither cya nor sunlight would be a factor.

I know nothing about this situation is ideal - what can you suggest I should do differently/better within all these added difficulties?

Dom - how can I get the FAS/DPD chlorine test (and more cya test supplies) - and for how much?
Then I guess I will compare that cost to the whole kit and see how much more sense it maybe makes to just get the whole kit.

Final question (probably a stupid one) :
The chlorine I added this morning I presume has been well eaten/burnt off by now. Is there ANY value to adding stabilizer to protect it from at least the sun - and lift the cya again?

Re Pics - I will try to add something. I think I reached my limit, having not donated yet. But I will try.
 
I have this pic on hand from a few days ago. It's shot across the pool of course and you can see a couple leaves etc on the floor partway across the pool. On your computer screens you be able to more clearly see the design of the floor, and the seam where the wall meets the floor at the far side. I can on my phone but that might be cus I took the pic and know what and where to look for...

(I have to say it seems very similar NOW in terms of colour (faint green/blue?) but just easier to see through - but pics don't show it so well anyway)

Screenshot_20180613-135503.jpg
 
This sounds like another case of easier to drain it and start over than continue wasting chlorine and effort without a decent test kit. Then you could put the correct amount of stabilizer in there, and use the crappy test kit to check chlorine. You really can't slam with out the right test.
 

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