POOLNerd vs. pool retailer - who's test is more accurate?

[PoolStored]

Amazon is a Crud shoot. I've gotten so many expired reagents. I order 100% from TFtestkits.net Guaranteed fresh and 100% customer satisfaction if there are ANY issues. Fast shipping.

 

[P00LNerd]

Cool. I'll know that for next time, although I suspect from now on I'll be ordering pre-season.

For now, I gotta make do with what I have. Not like I'm shutting down the pool for lack of repeatable test data.

Any thoughts on the results?

 

[PoolStored]

Not sure on the results. Post full results from the test kit you have...no strips and we'll offer up...

 

[Newdude]

For now, I gotta make do with what I have

I understand entirely.

But.

Not like I'm shutting down the pool for lack of repeatable test data.

Bad data is worse than no data.

*Dr runs inaccurate hCG test*

Congratulations Dude !!!! You're pregnant.

 

[proavia]

Do yourself and us a BIG favor - throw the test strips in the garbage.
Even if they were close to accurate right now, they become inaccurate quickly (air exposure, poor quality, etc).
So you use them now (when maybe accurate) and begin to trust them cause they're "easy". And in a while, when you need accuracy cause something in the pool isn't quite right, they are providing inaccurate info.

Test strips are as bad as pool store testimg.

As for test kit supplies, TFTestkits offers a refill sale every March (pre-season for many).
I've been using TFTestkits exclusively since 2015. Never an issue with reagents. But if I were to ever have an issue, I am 100% certain it would be addressed quickly to my satisfaction.

 

[P00LNerd]

Not sure on the results. Post full results from the test kit you have...no strips and we'll offer up...

I did. First image shows FC and pH, the two parameters for which I'm finding discrepancies. I'll post it again here:



If you're interested, I'll also post TC below:



The only other test in the K-1004 is Alkalinity, not worth a photo, but it took 10 drops to turn green to clear, and an 11th to turn full red. So Alk ~ 105 ppm, which is right on the target given by Frog and my pool retailer. I know TFC recommends lower Alk, but I don't know why.

 

[Newdude]

First image shows FC

Closer to but less than 5. Add 3ppm a day because that's about our loss these days.

If the block test comes back a lower single digit like now, add a little more than 3ppm that day.

know TFC recommends lower Alk, but I don't know why.

The industry expects you to use pucks or such and the acid in the CYA lowers the Ph. So a higher TA slows the Ph loss. Think of them as rubber banded together. As the TA stretches further up, it starts yanking the Ph from doing its own thing.

Conversely, constantly lowering the Ph pulls the TA down too.

And it's a PERFECT example of the industry's nonsense. Ditch the pucks/cya packs and the Ph drop stops and rises instead. But the higher TA rec stays when it's not needed and causes an even faster Ph rise. Do they not know basic water chemistry, or do the want to then sell you dry acid all the time to lower the Ph ? Your call there. They either are ignorant or trying to sell you more stuff you wouldn't need.

 

[P00LNerd]

Do yourself and us a BIG favor - throw the test strips in the garbage.
Even if they were close to accurate right now, they become inaccurate quickly (air exposure, poor quality, etc).

I hear what you're saying. But this was a brand-new sealed pack opened this week, and kept in a dry space. I had planned to toss them, until I saw the pool retailer uses the same strips in their whiz-bang computerized analyzer, and they claim their data is good.

So you use them now (when maybe accurate) and begin to trust them cause they're "easy". And in a while, when you need accuracy cause something in the pool isn't quite right, they are providing inaccurate info.

My plan was to use the strips only for quick daily check, and then the Taylor kit for the more accurate weekly check. Of course, if they strongly disagree, that plan goes out the window.

Test strips are as bad as pool store testimg.

Therein may lay the problem that I've been slow to get. I've been trusting the pool store data.

But also be aware I've never had anything but 100% clear water. We've never lost a single day of swimming to water quality. This is more about the longevity of my equipment, keeping pH dialed in where it should be, and FC/TC no higher than it needs to be.

Here's a random shot taken yesterday, of the dog babysitting the pool vac, after we were finished swimming:

As for test kit supplies, TFTestkits offers a refill sale every March (pre-season for many).
I've been using TFTestkits exclusively since 2015. Never an issue with reagents. But if I were to ever have an issue, I am 100% certain it would be addressed quickly to my satisfaction.

They'll be my go-to, starting next year. Thanks!

 

[CreedenceTapes]

The only other test in the K-1004 is Alkalinity, not worth a photo, but it took 10 drops to turn green to clear, and an 11th to turn full red.

On TA, keep adding drops till there's no further color change. Don't count a drop that doesn't change the color any. So if another drop makes it redder, that counts.

 

[P00LNerd]

Closer to but less than 5.

I'm partly color blind, but I always thought it only affected my ability to see darker colors, eg. dark blue vs dark green vs black... all look the same to me. But maybe it goes beyond that, because I see that as almost perfect match to 3 ppm?

Add 3ppm a day because that's about our loss these days.
If the block test comes back a lower single digit like now, add a little more than 3ppm that day.

I've added no chlorine the last two days, with no change in result. But the cover was on 24/7 until yesterday afternoon, when I had it off for the whole afternoon. I will be interested to see what today's test shows, but yeah, I'd believe we could lose quite a bit more with the cover off.

What I've noticed in the past, with the cover on for extended stretches and the sanitizer in the loop (it's bypassed now), is that FC climbs only a little but TC gets real high. I guess CC can't evaporate out with the cover on, but the FC is still consumed fighting the leaves that are constantly collecting in the pool.

The industry expects you to use pucks or such and the acid in the CYA lowers the Ph. So a higher TA slows the Ph loss. Think of them as rubber banded together. As the TA stretches further up, it starts yanking the Ph from doing its own thing.

That makes sense. Thanks!

Conversely, constantly lowering the Ph pulls the TA down too.

Okay. I've seen TA drift low in the past, on a few occasions, and I guess it might be from the added CYA pulling it down.

And it's a PERFECT example of the industry's nonsense. Ditch the pucks/cya packs and the Ph drop stops and rises instead. But the higher TA rec stays when it's not needed and causes an even faster Ph rise. Do they not know basic water chemistry, or do the want to then sell you dry acid all the time to lower the Ph ? Your call there. They either are ignorant or trying to sell you more stuff you wouldn't need.

Probably a combination of the two. The guy I deal with most at my pool retailer is definitely not pushing or benefitting from the sale of any additional product, but I would believe that he's following what he's consumed from the manufacturers, who obviously have an interest in pushing product.

 

[P00LNerd]

On TA, keep adding drops till there's no further color change. Don't count a drop that doesn't change the color any. So if another drop makes it redder, that counts.

Oh Crud... I've been doing it wrong, all along! I've been counting until I see the first shift from clear to red. Usually 9 drops to go from green to clear, and a 10th to go from clear to faint red... I've been calling that 100 ppm.

Is this the way all drop tests work, like the FC/CC test I have on the way? Keep going until the red won't get any darker?

 

[Newdude]

But maybe it goes beyond that, because I see that as almost perfect match to 3 ppm?

If you DO get it right, which as you see is subjective at best, it's still not accurate per Taylor's own say so. IIRC it was +/- 1 at 3ppm and they said above that was worse. They also have no need to figure it out for 4+ per industry recs to never go that high.

So it's an idea but without an actual value.

I guess CC can't evaporate out with the cover on

CCs build under the cover with less sunlight to burn them off.

but the FC is still consumed fighting the leaves that are constantly collecting in the pool

Sunlight still gets through the cover, but less. Plus whatever needed sanitizing.

Probably a combination of the two. The guy I deal with most at my pool retailer is definitely not pushing or benefitting from the sale of any additional product, but I would believe that he's following what he's consumed from the manufacturers, who obviously have an interest in pushing product.

Bingo. The 16 year old kid I met at Leslie's is just a pawn. And my long time Mom and Pop at the local store who mean well are just following what the industry reps taught them. But somewhere high above, they have to have people who understand science, right ? Then ignore it for sales ? Lol.

Is this the way all drop tests work, like the FC/CC test I have on the way? Keep going until the red won't get any darker?

Yes that's the way for the color change tests. Add one extra drop to prove no further change, then subtract that drop.

When you get the powder FC test, it's so drastic from Barbie pink to clear that you usually don't need the extra drop to be sure.

 

[PoolStored]

Is this the way all drop tests work, like the FC/CC test I have on the way? Keep going until the red won't get any darker?

No it goes from red to clear.

 

[P00LNerd]

When you get the powder FC test, it's so drastic from Barbie pink to clear that you usually don't need the extra drop to be sure.

Good. I tried re-testing Alk this morning, following the guidance to keep dropping until red shift stopped, but I'm honestly just guessing. I couldn't tell when it stopped shifting. I'd put my accuracy there at worse than a 30 ppm range. Maybe when I get the automatic stirrer (also on order with Taylor), I can improve on that, as stopping to shake the vial definitely interferes with observing red-tone change.

My method, although wrong, was more binary and obvious, so really I wish the kit worked that way. Glad to hear the FC/CC kit is more like that.

I'm still really concerned with my pH. The Taylor kit seems to indicate it's low, maybe 7.2. Although I know the test strips are inaccurate, at least when I tested one (by eye only, no computer) this morning, it agreed at 7.2. Yet, the pool store was telling me I was already at 7.3 last week, before I added another 1.5 lb. of pH Up. By that measure, I should be closer to 7.7 or 7.8.

Do you agree my pH looks low in the images above?

 

[Newdude]

Maybe when I get the automatic stirrer (also on order with Taylor), I can improve on that, as stopping to shake the vial definitely interferes with observing red-tone change.

The stirrers are an all out game changer. I used to tout them, the bees knees.... all that jazz, and it was too cliché.

Now I simply suggest you go try and take somebody else's away and let their death grip on it be your guide to how much they love it.

Protip: Be prepared to fight dirty. Cuz they will if they need to.

Do you agree my pH looks low in the images above

I use a thumb from each hand to block off the # above and below what I want to see. I find yes/no to be way easier than best of 3. For example :

More Peach / less orange / lighter



Less Peach / Lighter




So I'd say it's dead between the two @ 7.0.

Keep in mind, and especially with vinyl, any 7 is equally OK. There's no need to split hairs. If you dose early, your pennance is the next dose comes sooner too. If you dose a couple days late (or even a week), no harm is done as Ph is a long term concern.

 

[P00LNerd]

Thanks, @newdude! Yeah, I know pH is a long-term thing, but I think my pH is low more often than not, so... long-term. I know metal parts (heat pump heat exchanger) corrode faster in low pH, but I'm not sure how much faster. Maybe all heat pumps die from weathering, long before pool water pH can get them.

 

[Newdude]

6.8 for a couple days before you catch it, or are sure its a tad low won't matter.

 

[proavia]

Why not just cancel your order with Taylor and order a TF-Pro from TFTestkits?

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https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

 

[P00LNerd]

Why not just cancel your order with Taylor and order a TF-Pro from TFTestkits?

Because the TF-Pro lacks some of what I need (eg. total hardness for house water), and because it also contains other things I already have (eg. pH, Alkalinity).

But I did call Taylor to find out where the heck my order was, and they said they won't be shipping it until next week! Hard to imagine why it takes a retailer two weeks to box and ship items that were already in-stock, in our modern times, but there it is. I did verify all items were listed in stock before placing my order.

TFTestkits does not appear to have what I need, re: total hardness, and I'd rather not duplicate most of what I already have with another full TF-Pro kit. Anyone got a recommend source for the following?

1. Total hardness (for house water)
2. CYA, most accurate option 20 - 100 ppm
3. Chlorine drop test
4. Automatic stirrer

Fill out your signature with pool, all pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info.
This assists us in providing you help without needing to ask you each time for this important information.

Will do, as soon as I find and order kits! Would like to get something shipped today, if still possible.

 

[PoolStored]

CH is Hardness. Doesn't matter if pool or house water...same test.

You can get all of it on TFTestkits.net.