Pool water stings open skin

[Costas > DownUnder]

Before everyone jumps to incorrect conclusions, people need to remember that an unbonded pool will only deliver a shock if some other fault exists.

An unbonded pool can be totally safe UNTIL a fault occurs which can then cause a potential difference between the water itself and whatever has failed.

Fibreglass pools are inherently much safer as fibreglass itself is an electrical insulator, so unless the water itself is connected to a different potential (eg through a metal ladder bolted into the ground or a non insulated pump or a person in the water touching say a fence etc) there is no easy way to receive a shock.

Concrete pools are a different proposition as electrical current can flow through the rebar and through say moist plaster and concrete and then into the main body of water.


One item that can cause a problem are pool lights powered directly off the mains (120VAC or 240VAC etc).

Luckily these days many pools (not all though) are being fitted with low voltage LED lights with external LED drivers. The external driver drops the voltage down to safe low voltage DC before it is supplied to the LEDs in the pool - so if this type of LED housing is totally damaged and left with bare wires hanging in the pool, nothing will happen.

Some LEDs are still powered by mains electricity especially the LED replacement/retrofit style lights and these could still present a hazard if they leak water into their housings thereby possibly allowing a direct path for mains to enter the pool water.


Some pumps are not 'double' insulated so there is a very slight hazard associated with these if they suffer from a particular failure mode but this failure would be very rare where the water in the pump (thereby all the pool water) could be exposed to mains voltage.

I know the pump I chose is double insulated to protect users against that type of failure.



Note - in Canada...

So here in Canada, bonding is not required on a fiberglass pool unless metal has been added. Aluminum coping, stainless steel hand rail or ladder etc.

 

[Hails]

Before everyone jumps to incorrect conclusions, people need to remember that an unbonded pool will only deliver a shock if some other fault exists.

An unbonded pool can be totally safe UNTIL a fault occurs which can then cause a potential difference between the water itself and whatever has failed.

Fibreglass pools are inherently much safer as fibreglass itself is an electrical insulator, so unless the water itself is connected to a different potential (eg through a metal ladder bolted into the ground or a non insulated pump or a person in the water touching say a fence etc) there is no easy way to receive a shock.

Concrete pools are a different proposition as electrical current can flow through the rebar and through say moist plaster and concrete and then into the main body of water.


One item that can cause a problem are pool lights powered directly off the mains (120VAC or 240VAC etc).

Luckily these days many pools (not all though) are being fitted with low voltage LED lights with external LED drivers. The external driver drops the voltage down to safe low voltage DC before it is supplied to the LEDs in the pool - so if this type of LED housing is totally damaged and left with bare wires hanging in the pool, nothing will happen.

Some LEDs are still powered by mains electricity especially the LED replacement/retrofit style lights and these could still present a hazard if they leak water into their housings thereby possibly allowing a direct path for mains to enter the pool water.


Some pumps are not 'double' insulated so there is a very slight hazard associated with these if they suffer from a particular failure mode but this failure would be very rare where the water in the pump (thereby all the pool water) could be exposed to mains voltage.

I know the pump I chose is double insulated to protect users against that type of failure.



Note - in Canada...

So in Australia there is no requirement to have a fibreglass pool bonded unless there are metal components in the pool? We have pool lights but brand new low voltage ones as the entire pool is brand new.

 

[jgb75]

So in Australia there is no requirement to have a fibreglass pool bonded unless there are metal components in the pool?

In Australia any metal object within arms reach of the pool (defined as 1.2m) needs to be electrically bonded back to the main switchboard. We had to have the steel posts for our glass fence electrically bonded because of this. Can't exactly tell from your photo but your metal fence looks closer than that on the far side?

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

So in Australia there is no requirement to have a fibreglass pool bonded unless there are metal components in the pool?

You might just want to check with NSW specific electrical standards/rules but I quickly just located some Workcover notes on QLD's take on the topic and all they mention is concrete pools and spas.

How to safely install swimming pool and spa bonding - worksafe.qld.gov.au

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

In Australia any metal object within arms reach of the pool (defined as 1.2m) needs to be electrically bonded back to the main switchboard. We had to have the steel posts for our glass fence electrically bonded because of this. Can't exactly tell from your photo but your metal fence looks closer than that on the far side?

Correct - however you can only complete the circuit and possibly be electrocuted in a concrete pool - With a fibreglass pool generally there is no return path for the current as the shell itself is an insulator.

 

[Hails]

Ok so today I went out to the pool to test the levels and add some stabiliser etc. I got a fresh sore spot on my finger last night where a bit of skin peeled back next to my nail and it's all happening again, stinging my finger and the chlorine levels are right down this time. I grabbed a bucket of the pool water, went to the front of my house far away from the pool and stuck my finger in and there was zero sting. I then got my husbands multimeter and tested the water and its reading 1.03 volts while the pump is running (more than it was before), disconnect the pump from the power and it reads zero with no sting on my finger. I carefully ran an extension lead from inside my house, around my pool to the pump, turned it on and there was a sting again with the same reading.
So I'm now wondering if we have a dodgy pump? Or we just simply require another earth where the pool is, as the electricity is finding the easiest route to earth, either way it seriously needs to be rectified. My husband was on the phone with me, talking me through it all and hes on board with me now and is taking it alot more seriously. He knows some electricians who have experience with bonding and working around water and they will be coming out very soon to take a look at it all.

 

[riley00dog]

That is great investigative work. Sorry you are still having problems after all seemed good but at least you are aware now. An electrician experienced in bonding and water is definitely who you need. I don’t have the knowledge to be able to offer any insight but I’m sure others here do.

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

Where did you connect the multimeter probes to? That voltage is very low... Was the mutimeter set to AC or DC volts?

Also curious to what shoes were you wearing at the time. To receive a shock you must have part of your body in the water but another part of your body (bare skin) must be making contact with an item outside the pool for the current to flow eg wet/damp feet on tiles etc.

If you just had your hand in the water with the rest of your body insulated from the ground (eg wearing shoes etc) then no current will flow.

For instance, if you are sticking your hand in the pool but not touching the ground with exposed skin then no current can flow through you.

With the bucket test there is no need to take it far away from the pool. Just lift the bucket out of the pool and stick your finger in.... The fact that the bucket is out of the main body of water means that it is an isolated entity ie. No current can flow through the plastic bucket and into or out of the bucket of water.

 

[Hails]

Where did you connect the multimeter probes to? That voltage is very low... Was the mutimeter set to AC or DC volts?

Also curious to what shoes were you wearing at the time. To receive a shock you must have part of your body in the water but another part of your body (bare skin) must be making contact with an item outside the pool for the current to flow eg wet/damp feet on tiles etc.

If you just had your hand in the water with the rest of your body insulated from the ground (eg wearing shoes etc) then no current will flow.

For instance, if you are sticking your hand in the pool but not touching the ground with exposed skin then no current can flow through you.

With the bucket test there is no need to take it far away from the pool. Just lift the bucket out of the pool and stick your finger in.... The fact that the bucket is out of the main body of water means that it is an isolated entity ie. No current can flow through the plastic bucket and into or out of the bucket of water.

So I was holding the black probe, had no shoes on but dry feet standing on the concrete surround of the pool area and I put the red probe in the water, multi meter was set to AC.

I more so tested my finger in the bucket of water away from the pool to see if the sting was something to do with chemicals stinging me.

 

[Dirk]

You are assuming that whatever is wrong is stable. You shouldn’t. Stop poking this bear. Keep your hands out of the water, and stay off the deck if you can. Dose the water if you must. Wear rubber soled shoes. Sample for testing with a dry, plastic baster. Wear rubber gloves. Don’t go out to the pool alone. If what is wrong escalates, you could get into real trouble... better safe than sorry...

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

What brand pump do you have...?

Pump may have a 'leakage' fault allowing current to flow from the mains into the water out through your body to ground.

Do you know if your pump is connected to an RCD protected outlet?

Probably a good idea to unplug the pump (just in case) if anyone is near the water for the time being until a sparky checks it out further.

 

[Hails]

You are assuming that whatever is wrong is stable. You shouldn’t. Stop poking this bear. Keep your hands out of the water, and stay off the deck if you can. Dose the water if you must. Wear rubber soled shoes. Sample for testing with a dry, plastic baster. Wear rubber gloves. Don’t go out to the pool alone. If what is wrong escalates, you could get into real trouble... better safe than sorry...

I wont be playing around with it anymore, I believed the problem was chemicals after the sting ceased and I got all my levels correct until today. I now realised everytime I went out to the pool while I wasnt feeling the sting I did have footwear on but today I was barefoot. From here it will be over to an electrician to sort out, hopefully they can figure out what's happening otherwise I dont know what we will do.

 

[Dirk]

I wont be playing around with it anymore, I believed the problem was chemicals after the sting ceased and I got all my levels correct until today. I now realised everytime I went out to the pool while I wasnt feeling the sting I did have footwear on but today I was barefoot. From here it will be over to an electrician to sort out, hopefully they can figure out what's happening otherwise I dont know what we will do.

While potentially dangerous, electricity is relatively simple when it comes to what it's doing and why. There will be a solution...

 

[riley00dog]

Your pool is new right? Call back the electrician that did the pool work. If it was provided in your contract contact pb. If you had to source your own give him a call yourself. You shouldn’t have to pay to fix this.

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

The footwear is a good clue as it would have insulated your body from the ground.

Running that test barefoot would have allowed some conductivity between the ground and your body thereby allowing for any fault current to flow.

A young girl in Sydney the other day received an electrical shock while walking in the CBD....

She had taken off her shoes and had wet socks on which made the situation worse.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/sydney-schoolgirl-left-reeling-after-electric-shock-in-cbd/news-story/39dd0a815b099e3725f93830a8c297ce

 

[Hails]

The footwear is a good clue as it would have insulated your body from the ground.

Running that test barefoot would have allowed some conductivity between the ground and your body thereby allowing for any fault current to flow.

A young girl in Sydney the other day received an electrical shock while walking in the CBD....

She had taken off her shoes and had wet socks on which made the situation worse.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/sydney-schoolgirl-left-reeling-after-electric-shock-in-cbd/news-story/39dd0a815b099e3725f93830a8c297ce

I heard about that incident, just read the article you gave me the link for, poor kid.

You seem to have a pretty good understanding of electricity, are you trained or experienced in that field at all? I'm leaning towards thinking the pump is faulty after testing it from a different power source?

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

I heard about that incident, just read the article you gave me the link for, poor kid.

She was extremely lucky actually - It could have ended up a lot worse.

You seem to have a pretty good understanding of electricity, are you trained or experienced in that field at all? I'm leaning towards thinking the pump is faulty after testing it from a different power source?

My background is in electronics...

Pump could be faulty - it really requires correct testing with a high voltage insulation tester to prove it one way or another and possibly further testing to identify the root cause.

The fact that you only felt the tingling sensation when the pump was operating tends to point to the pump but a sparky should be able to perform a proper high voltage insulation test on it.

Some pumps are double insulated but many are not.

Double insulated pumps tend to go one step further in helping isolate the pump section (ie. section of the pump which is in contact with water) from the motor windings and the control circuitry. This aids in preventing any electrical connection from occurring (due to a fault) between the 'electrified' parts of the pump and the water.

It is always a good idea to power any pool equipment via RCD/ELCB equipped power points so if a mains current imbalance fault occurs then it will trip preventing a shock.

 

[riley00dog]

My background is in electronics...

Well that explains a lot!

 

[uxbridgechris]

It is always a good idea to power any pool equipment via RCD/ELCB equipped power points so if a mains current imbalance fault occurs then it will trip preventing a shock.

In North America we call them GFCI "ground fault circuit interupter". I wouldn't consider installing any electrical device outdoors, or any device that is near or that deals with water without one whether code requires it or not.

 

[Hails]

So my husband has narrowed the issue down to the chlorinator. We disconnected the chlorinator, ran the pump and there was no charge, hook up the chlorinator again and it's back again. [emoji53]