Pool wanted in Massachusetts

[blazin]

So my wife and I have been looking for our home for nearly 2 years, we've been through several offer situations on houses with and without pools knowing that a pool is a must have for us. We have finally found the house for us and had a well known and respected vinyl installer come out at our home inspection for his thoughts.

Those of you in Metrowest MA have heard of B&L I'm sure. Paul was super nice but unfortunately he felt he was not capable of putting a pool in our yard.

For setup the house has a steep grade in the back. When it was built a portion of the yard was built up to accommodate a level yard with a patio; however, this area is not large enough for a pool nor far enough for setbacks. The grade appears to be about 10 foot drop over 100 feet (researching on topo maps) but it's a bit more gradual in the area we are talking about.

It started with access, he was concerned about getting to the back yard and said it would need to be graded to ensure a truck wouldn't tip.

Next, we discussed the grade. He basically said if we built straight out from the land we were on, we'd need way too much fill to make it feasible. In my mind I was thinking we'd start at the low point and dig out the hill with retaining walls, but he said "That'd be a lot of work."

Lastly, he told us we were probably better off going gunite because at the end of the day we'd probably save money rather than if we did vinyl + all the retaining walls. The entire discussion was "that's going to be a lot of work." "That's expensive" "That's a budget buster" We left feeling like Paul was not interested in the job in anyway, basically excuse after excuse. Told us he basically assumed there was no way a pool was happening when he first walked the lot.


After some research, we found radiant pools may be an option with a nice block wall on the above ground portion; however, I found this lovely forum and a pool build in 2015 by B&L that seemingly had less access, a wooded lot, lots of rocks, and a steep grade. Paul made it work and apparently was the only one to save the day for those home owners. After finding that story, I'm concerned it is literally not possible.

I'm hoping some local pool owners can give us some confidence that a radiant dealer or concrete wall vinyl/gunite installer can turn this into reality. Anyone have build logs of similar grades?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I'm not local to you in MA, but I wanted to welcome you to TFP

We also put a pool in to a very sloped yard. We never used our backyard before the pool because it was nothing more than a forest of trees and azaleas.

Good luck in finding the right pool builder for you.... keep us posted and when you do build, we love pics!

Maddie

 

[KarenNJ]

We had to dig 2.5ft over about 18ft and that was a lot of digging. We also put in a retaining wall which is no where near as tall as yours and was not cheap. You may be looking at $15K+ just in ground prep and a wall.

Radiants are a good quality pool.

 

[blazin]

I guess I should have noted budget. When researching originally we planned ~70k. This was vinyl, spa, heater, LEDs, and stamped concrete. Only actual price we had was from installers sheet. This was assuming are fairly level yard.

No idea how far off but we wanted to budget somewhat high to plan accordingly.

Now with the new house I'm wondering if that figure is closer to accurate or low. We'll need all above plus more digging, stone work, oh and tree clearing.. joy

Anyone have experience with timber harvesting? Have a few companies that offer this but I'm curious what the cut off is for paid service vs funded service. Land to be cleared is probably 50-75 trees.

 

[PoolGate]

I guess I should have noted budget. When researching originally we planned ~70k. This was vinyl, spa, heater, LEDs, and stamped concrete. Only actual price we had was from installers sheet. This was assuming are fairly level yard.

No idea how far off but we wanted to budget somewhat high to plan accordingly.

Now with the new house I'm wondering if that figure is closer to accurate or low. We'll need all above plus more digging, stone work, oh and tree clearing.. joy

Anyone have experience with timber harvesting? Have a few companies that offer this but I'm curious what the cut off is for paid service vs funded service. Land to be cleared is probably 50-75 trees.

$70k will get you the basic pool (40x20) and nothing else. The groundscaping and hardscaping it sounds like you need could be another $50k-$100k. It is not trivial work. And then there is the liability for this type of build. I think the builder might be wise to step out. Not that it can't be done, but it has 5 o'clock news written all over it. Good luck though I am sure you will find a builder willing to take on the liability of this complex a build. Be wary if all the experienced builders walk and only the smaller builders accept the job.

FYI: My build was fairly minor in the hilly department. One corner of the pool needed to be raised about 3 feet above grade. It took every spec of dirt excavated out of the hole to build that up. And I need a small retaining wall purely for aesthetics around 2 trees in that area.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I would say your budget is well below what you need. Basic decorative walls are expensive to build - in your area you could be looking at $9-$15 per square foot. See here -

Cost of Concrete Block Wall - Calculate 2017 Prices

But, because you're on a slope and in an area with lots of water/rain, it's not a simple block wall but a retaining wall that needs to be structurally sound. That will require engineering plans and, very likely, the input of a hydrological engineer familiar with the ground conditions in your area to provide for adequate drainage. Also, check with you local and county codes as many localities have restriction against changing natural or pre-existing drainage patterns without county approval. That can add a huge amount of time to any project as it requires county engineers to assess impact on local areas (neighboring properties and any nearby wet lands or waterways).

As for tree clearing, 75-100 trees is A LOT of work. Harvesting is only worthwhile if the quality of the trees is good and the type of wood yielded is valuable. If heavy equipment can't get back there, then it may not be cost effective to harvest. As well, you're not just cutting trees but you need to remove the stumps. Stump removal is the expensive part and usually requires specialized augurs the do a complete job (not just a stump grinder).

Sounds like you have quite a project on your hands. I hope you can find a builder to make it happen.

 

[blazin]

Thanks for all the insight, we have another reputable builder coming out this week. Plan to get a quote from them.

Definitely won't force a pool, but from pictures I see of terraced yards with pools this looks like a similar deal. Just need the one stop shop capable of handling that type of install.

 

[bmoreswim]

Here's just a quick note on the type of retaining wall that we used. It is rebar reinforced concrete called Stonemakers (they need no forms to build it with their proprietary additives). See our build thread for details in my signature - lots of pics. Our slope was quite hilly. Total cost $100K round numbers in a fairly high cost pool area. They are headquartered in your neck of the woods in southeast NH.

http://stonemakers.net/

And as a side note, we chose our PB because of Stonemakers. We needed a PB who could confidently do the hardscape aspect of the project. He technically subbed out the pool build but it was all under one contract with the main company. No issues. Wall system and pool will outlive me.

 

[rmclain73]

We had a pool built last year by Pools by Andrews. They did a great job. We also needed a lot of work to be done other than just the pool build. It was a two summer process. I had Andrews do the pool, but a local landscape company here in Needham do the grading, retaining walls, and pool deck. Andrews worked well with them. It was much cheaper to have a landscaper do the other work. We used Ideal Blocks for our retaining wall. They put us in contact with a structural engineer to design it. Due to fitting the pool in within our town setbacks we needed to go with a specialized retaining wall. If you want to view our build here is a link to it.

I would also plan on adding to your budget. It is cheaper to remove dirt than it is to add and settle. At the end of the day we decided to lower our grade, and add steps going down to the pool.

 

[jtrovato21]

We just installed our pool this spring and had to do a little bit of grading, nothing compared to what you're looking at. We had to cut into a slope that was about 3' over 50' and have about a 3' retaining wall at one end. We also hit ledge during our dig, so that cost about an extra $10K. All in with the pool, patio, retaining wall, and a fire pit with seating wall around it, we were over $80K. Sounds like you will be north of $100K easily with the amount of land prep work you will need.

I don't know if our pool builder goes to Franklin, but I would try them, Family Pools out of Lawrence. And Triad out of Haverhill did all the hardscape (patio and walls). They're a big reputable company that will give you a good idea of what you need for hardscape work.

 

[blazin]

Here's just a quick note on the type of retaining wall that we used. It is rebar reinforced concrete called Stonemakers (they need no forms to build it with their proprietary additives). See our build thread for details in my signature - lots of pics. Our slope was quite hilly. Total cost $100K round numbers in a fairly high cost pool area. They are headquartered in your neck of the woods in southeast NH.

http://stonemakers.net/

And as a side note, we chose our PB because of Stonemakers. We needed a PB who could confidently do the hardscape aspect of the project. He technically subbed out the pool build but it was all under one contract with the main company. No issues. Wall system and pool will outlive me.

To clarify your retaining walls were $100k or the entire build?

 

[blazin]

We had a pool built last year by Pools by Andrews. They did a great job. We also needed a lot of work to be done other than just the pool build. It was a two summer process. I had Andrews do the pool, but a local landscape company here in Needham do the grading, retaining walls, and pool deck. Andrews worked well with them. It was much cheaper to have a landscaper do the other work. We used Ideal Blocks for our retaining wall. They put us in contact with a structural engineer to design it. Due to fitting the pool in within our town setbacks we needed to go with a specialized retaining wall. If you want to view our build here is a link to it.

I would also plan on adding to your budget. It is cheaper to remove dirt than it is to add and settle. At the end of the day we decided to lower our grade, and add steps going down to the pool.

Mind sharing the cost or PMing me?

Thanks!

 

[bmoreswim]

To clarify your retaining walls were $100k or the entire build?

Haha, entire build. Walls (which are only partially visible - they surround entire pool structure) and decking (pricing for which included some of the wall structure in the "turned down" section of decking) totaled low $30's (maybe 50/50 for each if I had to guess on the real breakout) plus a few more for those resort-style built-in end tables. They are generally more affordable than hand laid block (from the advertising and in my quote experience) because of the speed at which they can do them resulting in less labor - probably equal for materials. They hired out an artist to come paint them. It's a trade-off. This will last forever (or many generations) but block may look better at that point if it holds together for 60 years.

 

[blazin]

Great thanks! we know this will be expensive, but we're thinking of the long term use. This is the forever house that I'd love to have my grandchildren enjoying this legwork in the future. For reference my kids are both under two!! I'm sure we'll need to turn the pool a few times in between but I feel the bulk of the cost is the one time prep work.

 

[rmclain73]

Mind sharing the cost or PMing me?

Thanks!

Sent