Pool Tile Failed - Leak?

[SDPoolOwner]

All,

A pool glass pool tile just fell off yesterday afternoon and need help determining (A) best short, (B) long-term fix, and (C) interim spa water maintenance.

We remodeled our backyard about 3 years ago and refinished our pool with new coping, tile (waterline and raised wall), and surface. The finished job looked great, but prior to this tile falling off, I noticed that the tile (which fell off) seemed darker than those around it and, now that it fell off, I found algae behind the tile. After further assessing the situation the open tile socket won't dry AND the grout above the tile (between the glass pool tile and the raised porcelain beige tile) is soft/wet, suggesting there may be a leak from the spa behind the porcelain tile. During the remodel (for the 20+ year old pool) the concrete of this same section inside the spa was compromised and the contractor used waterproof concrete to fill the weakened sections, but it may not have been an adequate job.

I suspect the right long term answer is to remove the large porcelain tile and explore the root cause of the issue, BUT I can't image doing that at this time given the snowball impact of doing so, e.g. likely breaking the porcelain tile, removing surface finish inside the spa, etc).

As such, is there a temporary short-term fix that I could implement? Is there (1) a waterproofing product (that would need to be applied on a wet surface) that I can purchase to dry the tile socket, (2) a moisture tolerant thin set or alternative adhesive that I could use to reattach the tile since it won't dry? I need some fix because on daily operation, the spa overflows into the pool and over this section of tile, so I can't operate the spillway until this is fixed.

What would be the recommended approach to investigate the root cause of the issue and implement a long-term fix?

In the meantime, what's the best way to maintain the spa water chemistry? Should I just treat it as a second pool and run the spa separately for portion of the day or night and balance the spa water chemistry separately?

I would go back to the tile installer but unfortunately is no longer in business.

Thank you for the help!

BTW, I live in San Diego, CA. Open to getting professional help in this area.

 

[ajw22]

E-Z Patch 4 F.S. Underwater (Fast Set) White Pool Tile Set & Grout Repair

E-Z Patch 4 F.S. White Pool Tile Grout Repair is an underwater fast set mixture used for setting or grouting tiles underwater. Thinset tile adhesive

e-zpatch.com

Clean the old thinset and grout off the wall and tile using an oscillating tool with a grout blade. Surface preparation is 70% of the success.

There is no “waterproof concrete”. There are waterproof membranes and coatings that can be put on top of concrete.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

E-Z Patch 4 F.S. Underwater (Fast Set) White Pool Tile Set & Grout Repair

E-Z Patch 4 F.S. White Pool Tile Grout Repair is an underwater fast set mixture used for setting or grouting tiles underwater. Thinset tile adhesive

e-zpatch.com

Clean the old thinset and grout off the wall and tile using an oscillating tool with a grout blade. Surface preparation is 70% of the success.

There is no “waterproof concrete”. There are waterproof membranes and coatings that can be put on top of concrete.

Thank you. I noticed that this product is white which will be close enough for the transparent glass tile as we used white thin set originally. For the grout, do you think there is any hope to use the original Prisim Warm Gray grout around the tile? Perhaps fully coat the hole when placing the tile, but leave a small amount of depth around the tile to come back with a second layer of colored grout over the tile set?

Also, upon further inspection, it looks the grout around several tiles is [EDIT: moist] . In the attached picture, taken towards end of day, there are about 25 tiles with darker grout around the corner. What would be the next step to address the underlying issue?

BTW, thank you correcting my comment about waterproof concrete. I believe the contractor used: MasterSeal 581 White Cementitious Waterproofing (formerly Thoroseal) during the repair the existing concrete before applying the pool plaster.

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

For reference here is the current recommended glass tile installation process from Oceanside Glass & Tile...

Installation Guidelines

Oceanside Glass & Tile

www.glasstile.com

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...l-Water-Feature-Installation.pdf?v=1625588595

 

[ajw22]

Perhaps fully coat the hole when placing the tile, but leave a small amount of depth around the tile to come back with a second layer of colored grout over the tile set?

I am not sure what you are describing.

You need to put a layer of thinset/grout on the pool surface using a notched trowel and then butter the back of the tile and press it in place. Use some plastic spacers to try and maintain the grout line spacing.

Once the tile sets in place then apply grout over the grout line spaces. You can use whatever grout you want but you say the area is staying wet so I don;t know how well other grout will set.

Also, upon further inspection, it looks the grout around several tiles is most.

Huh?

In the attached picture, taken towards end of day, there are about 25 tiles with darker grout around the corner. What would be the next step to address the underlying issue?

I think your underlying issue may be the planter area behind the pool. I suspect the outside pool wall did not have a waterproof membrane put on it to keep it from wicking water from the planting soil that then flows to the other side where the tile is.

Do you have irrigation along the outside edge of the pool?

 

[SDPoolOwner]

For reference here is the current recommended glass tile installation process from Oceanside Glass & Tile...

Installation Guidelines

Oceanside Glass & Tile

www.glasstile.com

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...l-Water-Feature-Installation.pdf?v=1625588595

Thanks. We shared these same instructions with our installer. I believe they mostly followed it, with perhaps some "this is how we do it in the field" adjustments.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

I am not sure what you are describing.

You need to put a layer of thinset/grout on the pool surface using a notched trowel and then butter the back of the tile and press it in place. Use some plastic spacers to try and maintain the grout line spacing.

Once the tile sets in place then apply grout over the grout line spaces. You can use whatever grout you want but you say the area is staying wet so I don;t know how well other grout will set.



Huh?



I think your underlying issue may be the planter area behind the pool. I suspect the outside pool wall did not have a waterproof membrane put on it to keep it from wicking water from the planting soil that then flows to the other side where the tile is.

Do you have irrigation along the outside edge of the pool?

Thank you. I understand that you are supposed to use notched trowel when you install sheets of tile. However, if I just need to replace one tile, could I just simply apply some thinset with a putty knife, back butter the tile, and press into place?

Re "Huh" I may have confused you since I used the wrong word, it should have said that the tiles around the missing tile is "moist" (e.g. wet), instead of most.

In regard to the source, there is a planter behind the pool, but it doesn't get much water, it seems morel likely that the grout around the large format tiles, especially in the corner could be compromised. Especially since the spa level drops more than I would expect overnight. I may try to use dye to explore this more.

 

[ajw22]

Thank you. I understand that you are supposed to use notched trowel when you install sheets of tile. However, if I just need to replace one tile, could I just simply apply some thinset with a putty knife, back butter the tile, and press into place?

You can. The notches let the thinset flow and more evenly grip the back of the tile.

Re "Huh" I may have confused you since I used the wrong word, it should have said that the tiles around the missing tile is "moist" (e.g. wet), instead of most.

That means you have water getting into the gunite and behind tiles which loosens them.

In regard to the source, there is a planter behind the pool, but it doesn't get much water, it seems morel likely that the grout around the large format tiles, especially in the corner could be compromised. Especially since the spa level drops more than I would expect overnight. I may try to use dye to explore this more.

If plants can survive there then you have enough water in the soil to be absorbed by the gunite.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

You can. The notches let the thinset flow and more evenly grip the back of the tile.



That means you have water getting into the gunite and behind tiles which loosens them.



If plants can survive there then you have enough water in the soil to be absorbed by the gunite.

Thank you for all your help and quick responses. I plan to purchase the E-Z Products product you recommended. Although it has a lot of great reviews on Amazon, there are some reviews that say it doesn't work. Are there any application tips that you can share to increase success?

BTW, have you ever tried to simply use silicon caulk? I heard that could be a pretty easy solution as well.

 

[ajw22]

Thank you for all your help and quick responses. I plan to purchase the E-Z Products product you recommended. Although it has a lot of great reviews on Amazon, there are some reviews that say it doesn't work. Are there any application tips that you can share to increase success?

Preparation is 70% of the work.

Mix it correctly.

Use the correct tools.

When they say it does not work, shat does that mean?

BTW, have you ever tried to simply use silicon caulk? I heard that could be a pretty easy solution as well.

I am not interested in messing up my pool with silicone caulk. Yes, it will stick a tile to the pool but long term algae can attach to it.


Go ask tilers why they don’t use silicone caulk instead of thinset. if it was a good material they would be doing it.

 

[SDPoolOwner]

All,

A pool glass pool tile just fell off yesterday afternoon and need help determining (A) best short, (B) long-term fix, and (C) interim spa water maintenance.

We remodeled our backyard about 3 years ago and refinished our pool with new coping, tile (waterline and raised wall), and surface. The finished job looked great, but prior to this tile falling off, I noticed that the tile (which fell off) seemed darker than those around it and, now that it fell off, I found algae behind the tile. After further assessing the situation the open tile socket won't dry AND the grout above the tile (between the glass pool tile and the raised porcelain beige tile) is soft/wet, suggesting there may be a leak from the spa behind the porcelain tile. During the remodel (for the 20+ year old pool) the concrete of this same section inside the spa was compromised and the contractor used waterproof concrete to fill the weakened sections, but it may not have been an adequate job.

I suspect the right long term answer is to remove the large porcelain tile and explore the root cause of the issue, BUT I can't image doing that at this time given the snowball impact of doing so, e.g. likely breaking the porcelain tile, removing surface finish inside the spa, etc).

As such, is there a temporary short-term fix that I could implement? Is there (1) a waterproofing product (that would need to be applied on a wet surface) that I can purchase to dry the tile socket, (2) a moisture tolerant thin set or alternative adhesive that I could use to reattach the tile since it won't dry? I need some fix because on daily operation, the spa overflows into the pool and over this section of tile, so I can't operate the spillway until this is fixed.

What would be the recommended approach to investigate the root cause of the issue and implement a long-term fix?

In the meantime, what's the best way to maintain the spa water chemistry? Should I just treat it as a second pool and run the spa separately for portion of the day or night and balance the spa water chemistry separately?

I would go back to the tile installer but unfortunately is no longer in business.

Thank you for the help!

BTW, I live in San Diego, CA. Open to getting professional help in this area.

All - As always thank you for your help. I have been working to solve the root cause of my problem. Since there was algae in the wall corner I applied chlorine paste (rubbed chlorine tab on surrounding wet tiles and moved paste to the corner) and found that water was coming out of the corner just above the tiles. Furthermore it is hollow under the top tile (when knocking on it) trapping water when the spillway overflows into the spa and slowly leaks out. After a few days, once the water level drops and the trapped water works its way out, it stops leaking. It seems like water could be entering through the joints either inside the spa, along the top tile which intersects the back wall, or down the corner. What would be the best way to seal these potential entry points?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Seal all gaps water is getting in with grout.

You should pop off any tiles that sound hollow and reattach them with thinset before regrouting.