We live in the Houston and are in the process of a pool renovation/lazy river. They dug at the end of October 2021 and this project is still going on. I'm not a pessimistic person, but this has been nothing but a huge nightmare. Our "pool builder" has made one mistake after another and I have no clue of what to do going forward. His excavator knocked our two 5 ton A/C units off the cement pads denting them and causing one to not work by doing a U turn in a tight space at the same time bending three panels of my neighbor's wrought iron fence. The plumber wasn't given our plan. I'm the one (me being the home ownder) that caught his huge mistake. Therefore, he had to come back out and redo his PVC piping that this particular pump calls for (he had to cut off two 90 degree PVC elbows and replace with new). In November I drove 50 minutes away across Houston to meet the pool builder at the tile shop. We picked out the tile and coping. Tile and coping was completed in January. The tile guys have to come back tomorrow and rip off all the waterline marble tile, pool backwall marble tile and spa perimeter marble tile due to it discoloring to a yellow color. I could go on and on but I'd run out of space on here. We have paid him more than enough money to cover his costs and then some. With everything that's happened he had the audacity to call on Tuesday asking for 20K more. I've pretty much had to play the whole pool builder's role without a paycheck. We still owe him 50K so of course he's not running but it's excuse after excuse about progression. With that being said, we question if he's "robbing Peter to pay Paul". We're almost at the point to where we might have to take this to litiation. I feel that we have been very nice and lenient throughout this whole process. However, this is getting really old. Any advice going forward what to do would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Pool Contract - Pool Builder's Repetitive Mistakes
- Thread starter Aquaholic1
- Start date
Welcome to TFP and so sorry about all the issues you have outlined.
The most important component is to have things in writing, where you advise the PB of an issue and hopefully he respond in writing. Keep a good documentation of dates, times, visits to your home, even phone calls and texts, etc. Furthermore, you should ask for an itemized bill of what is in the additional 20k. It is great that you have leverage (still holding 50k) as many contracts require periodic payments and when about 90% of the work is done, some people have paid 100% and have no leverage on the PB for the PB to finish or complete the remaining bits.
Just curious, did the PB or the subcontractor who damaged your AC units and neighbor's fence offer to repair or compensate you?
It may be in your best interest to at least talk with a lawyer because you may have claims against the PB if he is not willing to repair the damage his subcontractor caused.
There are several contributors on the forum that have had litigation so hopefully they will see your post to provide feedback.
The most important component is to have things in writing, where you advise the PB of an issue and hopefully he respond in writing. Keep a good documentation of dates, times, visits to your home, even phone calls and texts, etc. Furthermore, you should ask for an itemized bill of what is in the additional 20k. It is great that you have leverage (still holding 50k) as many contracts require periodic payments and when about 90% of the work is done, some people have paid 100% and have no leverage on the PB for the PB to finish or complete the remaining bits.
Just curious, did the PB or the subcontractor who damaged your AC units and neighbor's fence offer to repair or compensate you?
It may be in your best interest to at least talk with a lawyer because you may have claims against the PB if he is not willing to repair the damage his subcontractor caused.
There are several contributors on the forum that have had litigation so hopefully they will see your post to provide feedback.
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,967
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
My builder was like this as well but fortunately the subs were extremely professional and competent. I never saw the builder after the initial dig day. Make every effort to work with him or you'll not be swimming this season. Sad but he holds most of the power so swallow your pride. You can always come back when he's done and file a lawsuit if need be.
Hey Aqua and Welcome !!!!
How big is the scope of the project ? Is the lazy river around the pool, the house or the 117 acre property?
The bigger the project, the bigger the screw ups and set backs.
Regardless if big or small, we don't get many lazy river builders here. On a forum full of pool enthusiasts, you'd be catapulted to rock star popularity if you shared pics.
How big is the scope of the project ? Is the lazy river around the pool, the house or the 117 acre property?
The bigger the project, the bigger the screw ups and set backs.
Regardless if big or small, we don't get many lazy river builders here. On a forum full of pool enthusiasts, you'd be catapulted to rock star popularity if you shared pics.
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I feel your pain! Seeing all the horror stories on here has given me a lot of perspective. While one never wants to go through any of this, being just past 4 months in on this project it could be a lot worse. I've seen a lot of great advice on contracts/mix-ups from @Dirk so perhaps he can provide some input.
HermanTX, thank you very much taking the time to respond to my thread. Yes, I have documentation on every step along with photos dates and times. Fortunately, what we have paid has been all on credit card just in case something like this happen. We even paid the the 3% charge because I didn't want the PB to be stuck with that charge. The funny thing is that he tried to blame it on "his accountant" and my husband being a CPA himself told the PB to have "his accountant" call him that he'd be more than happy to chat with him. Of course, my husband never got a call from "his accountant". As far as the two A/C units, he kept saying that he couldn't get a hold of his excavator for months. Just a few weeks ago he finally wrote us a check for both of them. However, we are waiting for the project to be completed to prevent any damages to the new units. My neighbor's fence still sits damaged and he keeps promising that he will replace it in the end. The PB told me on Thursday that he called the tile place. The funny thing was is that I was there that day and even spoke to the manager. It's lie after lie. IF his tile guy doesn't show up today to rip out the tile then our next step is to consult with an attorney.
PoolGate,
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my thread. I'm sorry to hear that your PB was like that. I'm glad that your subs stepped up to the plate for you. Fortunately, what we have paid has been all on credit card just in case something like this happen. We even paid the the 3% charge because I didn't want the PB to be stuck with that charge. It appears that we have him backed in a corner now and he doesn't know what to do. I definitely don't have too much pride. However, I'm very confident and have covered all my bases. IF his tile guy doesn't come out today to rip out all this tile then our next step is to turn it over to an attorney.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,639
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Sorry about your frustration and the slow progress. Not to minimize your woes, but as TK points out, we've seen a lot worse here. Before you start down litigation road, let's take stock. You mention that there are too many issues to list. Fair enough, but what you've described so far does not necessarily require litigation, and not at this time. I'm sure every consumer would like their construction project to go perfectly smoothly, with no defects or problems, and end on time. That is the goal, and certainly a reasonable expectation, but unfortunately not always the reality, and not always the general contractor's fault. This is never more true than with pool construction projects. There are a lot of sub's involved, a lot of materials involved, difficult conditions to deal with, and a lot can go wrong. And that's in times when pool contractors are not overwhelmed with work, and handicapped by supply chain issues!
That said, there are plenty of shoddy contractors, so let's sort this out. Problems and delays are part of the process, but it's what the general does about them that determines next steps. And you say you've paid him "enough money to cover his costs" but he is entitled to profit during the course of the job. He's gotta eat, too, right? You can't expect him to work for months for you and only get paid enough to buy materials. That's not reasonable.
The damage you describe is unfortunate, but that, too, can be part of a construction project. He's literally moving heaven and earth for you, well earth anyway, and that requires using big equipment in a small space that is already filled with structures and plants and all sort of obstacles. What did he say he was going to do about the damage? And did he say when it was to be repaired? It's reasonable to sort this out amicably. The tile is another example. You ordered tile together, it ended up being defective. He's replacing it. That happens. Scratch that off the list. Scratch "driving 50 miles" off the list, too (that's a sign you're letting emotional components of this situation get the best of you, sorry to be so blunt). You caught the plumbing problem, and that too, got fixed. Scratch that off the list. Yah, that was bad, and should have been caught by the general, but we're all working together here, right? To get the best pool possible?
Again, I'm not siding with the contractor, but I'm not yet hearing that he's an ogre. Do you have a contract? Does it have a draw schedule? As long as he's not asking to violate it, and you are retaining enough money to complete the job, then him asking for a scheduled draw is not "audacity."
If your goal is to sue somebody, then by all means bring your blood to a boil and go for it. But if you want your pool finished for swim season, and you want a quality job, then I suggest you reevaluate your position and instead find better ways to work with this guy. Follow Herman's good advice, and start documenting the process. Communicate in writing when possible. Follow up on-site meetings and conversations with emails that detail all the talking points. You should be doing that even on a job that has no problems. But I would suggest, after only four months, you rethink litigating anything at this point.
When I get stuck like this, I give it the ol' Judge Judy test. I use this test in all sorts of confrontation situations. I picture myself describing the situation to Judge Judy, and try to imagine her response. She'll either chew me out, or she'll tear into the other guy. That's me checking myself about being right or wrong. If you told JJ this story, and said after four months of heavy construction, during the winter months when you can't even swim, that the contractor has allowed some problems to occur but he's been fixing them all at his expense... I'm not so sure she'd be chewing out the contractor. She'd ask him what's up, and maybe demand a timetable, but she'd then ask you what, exactly, are your damages, and what are you doing in court?
Sorry, probably not the support you were looking for, but for now, I'd rather see you figure out how to work with this guy, and save the talk about litigation for when you have no other option. That's my take, at least until you describe the other issues that might paint an uglier picture.
That said, there are plenty of shoddy contractors, so let's sort this out. Problems and delays are part of the process, but it's what the general does about them that determines next steps. And you say you've paid him "enough money to cover his costs" but he is entitled to profit during the course of the job. He's gotta eat, too, right? You can't expect him to work for months for you and only get paid enough to buy materials. That's not reasonable.
The damage you describe is unfortunate, but that, too, can be part of a construction project. He's literally moving heaven and earth for you, well earth anyway, and that requires using big equipment in a small space that is already filled with structures and plants and all sort of obstacles. What did he say he was going to do about the damage? And did he say when it was to be repaired? It's reasonable to sort this out amicably. The tile is another example. You ordered tile together, it ended up being defective. He's replacing it. That happens. Scratch that off the list. Scratch "driving 50 miles" off the list, too (that's a sign you're letting emotional components of this situation get the best of you, sorry to be so blunt). You caught the plumbing problem, and that too, got fixed. Scratch that off the list. Yah, that was bad, and should have been caught by the general, but we're all working together here, right? To get the best pool possible?
Again, I'm not siding with the contractor, but I'm not yet hearing that he's an ogre. Do you have a contract? Does it have a draw schedule? As long as he's not asking to violate it, and you are retaining enough money to complete the job, then him asking for a scheduled draw is not "audacity."
If your goal is to sue somebody, then by all means bring your blood to a boil and go for it. But if you want your pool finished for swim season, and you want a quality job, then I suggest you reevaluate your position and instead find better ways to work with this guy. Follow Herman's good advice, and start documenting the process. Communicate in writing when possible. Follow up on-site meetings and conversations with emails that detail all the talking points. You should be doing that even on a job that has no problems. But I would suggest, after only four months, you rethink litigating anything at this point.
When I get stuck like this, I give it the ol' Judge Judy test. I use this test in all sorts of confrontation situations. I picture myself describing the situation to Judge Judy, and try to imagine her response. She'll either chew me out, or she'll tear into the other guy. That's me checking myself about being right or wrong. If you told JJ this story, and said after four months of heavy construction, during the winter months when you can't even swim, that the contractor has allowed some problems to occur but he's been fixing them all at his expense... I'm not so sure she'd be chewing out the contractor. She'd ask him what's up, and maybe demand a timetable, but she'd then ask you what, exactly, are your damages, and what are you doing in court?
Sorry, probably not the support you were looking for, but for now, I'd rather see you figure out how to work with this guy, and save the talk about litigation for when you have no other option. That's my take, at least until you describe the other issues that might paint an uglier picture.
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Hi. Can I ask why the marble tile discolored? There isn’t even water in the pool.
I had briefly considered a marble tile for waterline that was listed as exterior safe but that manufacturer had not listed it as pool safe on their specs so I moved on.
I had briefly considered a marble tile for waterline that was listed as exterior safe but that manufacturer had not listed it as pool safe on their specs so I moved on.
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,967
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Marble is very porous I cannot imagine any scenario where it is a good choice for a pool. Granite or porcelain/ceramic is a much better choice.
Hey Aqua and Welcome !!!!
How big is the scope of the project ? Is the lazy river around the pool, the house or the 117 acre property?
The bigger the project, the bigger the screw ups and set backs.
Regardless if big or small, we don't get many lazy river builders here. On a forum full of pool enthusiasts, you'd be catapulted to rock star popularity if you shared pics.
Newdude,Hey Aqua and Welcome !!!!
How big is the scope of the project ? Is the lazy river around the pool, the house or the 117 acre property?
The bigger the project, the bigger the screw ups and set backs.
Regardless if big or small, we don't get many lazy river builders here. On a forum full of pool enthusiasts, you'd be catapulted to rock star popularity if you shared pics.
Thank you so much for taking time to post on my thread. I agree 100% with you regards to there not being too many lazy river builders here. Honestly, I didn't even want to post putting the word "lazy river" on here but I didn't know how to explain that our existing pool is being renovated and the lazy river is a new build. I was very hesitant because I feel me saying "lazy river" just makes it seem like I'm snotty or something. Actually, the lazy river has a HUGE meaning behind it. Long story - short, my father in law was recently diagnosed with Parkinson's. Unfortunately, he's not able to travel to their time share in Florida anymore to enjoy the lazy river like he once did because of the disease and the pandemic. Therefore, in 2020 I took our site plot from when we purchased our house (during Hurricane Harvey in 2017 - that's a whole different story within itself) here and used colored map colors to design this lazy river next to our existing pool. Since I'm not a CAD software queen by no means, I hired a professional aquatic designer to implement my design into Pool Studio. Then I spent 2021 filling doing my research filling my brain with pool knowledge, interviewing pool builders in hopes that I wouldn't become one of these "victims" (man...did I fail or what?).
To answer your question....No, we don't own 117 acres with horesies and cows (even though I grew up on a farm in West Texas). lol The space that the lazy river is only like 25 x 30. We're talking about a small lazy river with the perimeter being 159 linear feet/443 square feet. I'm definitely far from being a Rock Star (thank you though). Honestly, all I want is to see my father in law float around the lazy river smiling before his disease worsens. He will be 80 years old in December. I just want this to be completed the right way without having to play the PB role. Seeing people smile melts my heart!
OK so no massive project to lessen the blow of it taking so long.
However. All lazy rivers are beautiful in their own regard. Request for pics still stands. Rock star status achievable with *any* sort of lazy river.
However. All lazy rivers are beautiful in their own regard. Request for pics still stands. Rock star status achievable with *any* sort of lazy river.
Cena_sea, absolutely...ask away anything you please and I'll try my best to answer just based on my personal experience. When I spoke to three different reputable tile companies seeking answers to why this was happening this is what I was told...Marble (or other natural stone) it's not that it's not intended for exterior use. However, it's very porous and none of them would recommend it definitely using it for waterline tile. IF a person choses to use it for exterior use then it should be sealed with an enhanced sealer before it's laid and after it's laid. Any type of natural stone contains iron. From all of them just seeing the pictures I have taken they said due to the natural stone having iron in it caused it to oxidize from moisture, humidity, etc. I love the way it looks. I'm definitely not a stone expert. lol I'm just going by what my personal experience entails. It also appeared to them that my stone wasn't sealed before or after. I hope this helps answer your question. Please feel free to ask any questions that you may have. I'll answer them the best to my knowledge. Thank you!
Newdude,OK so no massive project to lessen the blow of it taking so long.
However. All lazy rivers are beautiful in their own regard. Request for pics still stands. Rock star status achievable with *any* sort of lazy river.
Well, thank you. The number one key to any successful business is communication and honesty. I understand that my situation could be a whole lot worse. I was always taught growing up to treat others the way I'd like to be treated. Unfortuately, we can't control how others. Maybe in a perfect world. I will definitely send you pictures. There's a reason behind it all. The truth always comes out somewhere along the line.
Now, you tell me. lol It's a little too late. I'm learing as I go. I'm definitely no expert by any means. However, I feel that I know more than some "pool builders". It's just ashame that PB can't trust home owner's and vis versa.OK so no massive project to lessen the blow of it taking so long.
However. All lazy rivers are beautiful in their own regard. Request for pics still stands. Rock star status achievable with *any* sort of lazy river.
Thank you so much for posting on my thread. I agree, it could be a whole lot worse. I'm just trying to prevent it being that moving forward. I will reach out to @Dirk for sure. Any advice from all of you smart peeps would be greatly appreciated.
You can upload them here by using 'attach files' in the bottom left corner of the box you type your post in. Take pics that don't identify you or your house if anonymity is a concern in any way. Anyone who has been in your backyard and would recognize the pics already knows where you live. To the rest of us, it's just a random backyard.
There is a method to my madness FYI. Post a title involving a lazy river and you'll get lots of folks looking who can also help. Change your title to involve 'Lazy river with pics' and you'll get even MORE eyes / help.
Dirk,
I understand what you're saying 100%. However, it is excuse after excuse. Trust me. I would say almost paying him 200K that we've definitely covered his costs PLUS. I can also look from the business aspect side of things due to me owning my own business in the past. I have been more linent than most home owner's would be. I'm a very detailed oriented person when it comes to documenting everything. My husband took two years of law school and that helps out a great deal. It's definitely not my job as a home owner to play the PB role like I have been. Honestly, I know more than my PB. If you were to read my replies from him then you'd understand a whole lot more. I totally understand in a perfect world there wouldn't be any set backs. However, when he's given us multiple timelines and doesn't follow through that becomes an issue. Yes, I met him at the tile shop. However, it's not my expertise to know tile. He should've known or at least asked if he didn't know. I didn't go to the check out counter with him because I feel like that part is none of my business. I have all my bases covered 100%. I know Judge Judy would agree. Thank you for you knowledge and advice. I really do appreciate it.
Newdude,You can upload them here by using 'attach files' in the bottom left corner of the box you type your post in. Take pics that don't identify you or your house if anonymity is a concern in any way. Anyone who has been in your backyard and would recognize the pics already knows where you live. To the rest of us, it's just a random backyard.
There is a method to my madness FYI. Post a title involving a lazy river and you'll get lots of folks looking who can also help. Change your title to involve 'Lazy river with pics' and you'll get even MORE eyes / help.
You really are serious about seeing pictures. lol I just can't bring myself to broadcast lazy river. I'm just not that type and keep a low profile. lol I'll see.....Thank you!
OK so no massive project to lessen the blow of it taking so long.
However. All lazy rivers are beautiful in their own regard. Request for pics still stands. Rock star status achievable with *any* sort of lazy river.
