Plumbing Routing Trouble - New Owner

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uwsublime

Active member
Oct 16, 2017
44
Seattle, WA
Hello,

I have a few issues with my plumbing that I would appreciate some advice on.

1) When my pool or spa heat reaches the desired level, the computer controlled valve switches from 'gas' to 'solar.' This causes the water to go up onto my roof, traverse through the solar, then come back down and go through the gas furnace (which is now off), then back into the pool or spa. This is extremely inefficient, usually resulting in an actual cooling of the water (or even draining of the water as my solar panels are leaky). This is especially troublesome when heating the spa on a cold night... The temp gets to 104F, then the valve switches and the water runs through cold pipes, quickly cooling the spa resulting in a heating/cooling loop that burns extra gas. Obviously what I would like is for the gas to switch off when the temp reaches the desired level, but for the filtering to continue going directly through the furnace rather than up onto the roof.

2) I would like to be able to program the pool to heat between certain hours and the spa to heat at other hours and have the computer switch the plumbing accordingly without manual intervention. I'm sure this will take new hardware, but I'm not sure exactly what.

I've included a photo with labels of my current system which has 4 manual valves and 1 automatic valve (plus a backwash/drain valve). Thanks in advance for any advice!

pool_plumbing.jpg
 
What is the temperature set for on the SunTouch vs the Heater? If the SunTouch is set for a much lower temperature, it should not go on at all and should bypass solar. Especially at night. So it sounds like the controller is not working properly. Where do you have the solar temperature sensor installed?
 
Thank you for the reply. When this was happening, the SunTouch was set for 104F, which is the max. I wanted to keep my spa at 104F. It was set to do this until 9 or 10pm, at which point the circuit would correctly turn off. The issue was that during the hours before the circuit went off, if the temp reached 104F, the filter kept running and the computer would route the water through the solar. I am not sure where the sensor is mounted. How would I find it? This was all installed before I purchased this house,

Brian
 
The issue was that during the hours before the circuit went off, if the temp reached 104F, the filter kept running and the computer would route the water through the solar.
Click to expand...
If the solar was set up properly, that should never happen.

They may have installed the sensor incorrectly. The only time solar should go on is when the solar sensor says the heat from the sun is more than the water temperature and at night, that should never happen except when air temps are higher than the water temp.

There should be a temperature sensor wire that travels up the solar supply or return pipe. Follow that sensor wire to where the sensor is installed. It should be close to the panels but NOT installed in the pipe but outside the pipe so the sun can hit it directly.

But are you sure that solar is actually raising the water temperature to 104F?
 
OK, I think I did not fully explain this. What you are describing (I think) is what happens when it is set on 'solar preferred.' It would sense the temperature and switch over when it would be beneficial. My issue goes beyond that... This is happening when I have the computer set on 'heater' not 'solar' or 'solar-preferred'. Additionally, even if it was set to solar preferred, this is happening when the water reaches the desired temp in the computer and the computer knows that no further heating is required (solar or gas).

I will look for the solar sensor and get back to you on the location...

No, the solar is NOT raising the temp to 104F, the gas is. Once it gets there and no further heating is required, the water is then routed into the solar which is the problem I am trying to fix.
 
Are you sure the solar actuator switch is not in the wrong position so it is opening when it should close?

Solar should not turn on unless it is enabled and water temp is below the solar sensor temp.
 
mas985 said:
Are you sure the solar actuator switch is not in the wrong position so it is opening when it should close?

Solar should not turn on unless it is enabled and water temp is below the solar sensor temp.
Click to expand...

I believe that Mark is onto the solution. Pls take a pic of the valve w actuator that changes from heater to solar, and tell us what position it is in based on actual flow of water.
 
The solar is correctly turning on when I have the computer set on either "solar" or "solar preferred," and in the "solar" setting, the gas never turns on and the water is always directed through the solar. It is only when I set it to gas only that I have a problem, and even then the water is correctly routed up until the point when I have reached my desired temperature. I can assure you that it is not setup backwards, only doing the wrong thing at desired temp. I would gladly take a picture of the valve, but my pool shed door has swollen shut...
 
Exactly how are you setting the controller to "gas only"? Are you disabling solar?

I suspect the issue is with the controller setup. Have you read through the manual on how to override solar for using the heater? pg 10

https://www.pentairpool.com/~/media/websites/pool/downloads/automation/manuals/suntouch_control_system_installation_and%20users_guide_english.pdf

The controller also has a cool off mode as well. Do you know what the temperature settings are for that? If the cooling mode is triggered after the heating mode, the solar valve will send water to the panels.
 

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Yes, as per that manual, I am selecting "Heater" to get gas only. "Solar" would be solar only, and "Solar Preferred" would be solar, unless gas is required, then gas. I had no idea about the cool off mode. I will have to check that to see the settings on it. I will see if my door has shrunk far enough to let me in later today...

Just searched that manual for the cool off mode and it appears that is only an option when set on "Solar," which is not the case when I am having these routing issues.
 
Just to make sure I fully understand the issue let me summarize:

When the controller is in Heater mode and the heater reaches the thermostat set point, the heater turns off and the solar valve switches positions sending water to the solar panels.

Assuming the solar valve is on the correct relay (Valve C), then the only possibility left is that the controller is having problems because the solar valve should never switch positions if the controller is in Heater mode.
 
Yes, you've summarized correctly. I'm not sure what this means or how to check it: "the solar valve is on the correct relay (Valve C)". Also, I am still a little reluctant to blame it on a defective controller since the controller does dozens of other things correctly. I feel like maybe there is some setting on the controller I am overlooking. Anyway, I really appreciate your troubleshooting and help, as this stuff is all way over my head at this point,

Brian
 
OK, I finally got my pool shed door open about a week ago, then I spent the past week opening my pool, balancing the chemistry, and getting the gear up and running again. I have had the controller set to "heater" (gas only) and once again, when it reaches the desired temp, the actuator for the solar opens and the water is going up onto the roof, where it is promptly being cooled by the windy, rainy, 55F temps in Seattle, as well as quickly draining my pool through the numerous holes in the solar panels. I'm going to get these torn off my roof soon, but in the mean time I'd still love to figure out why it's routing the water this way. I just checked and the actuator is correctly wired to Valve C on the controller. The actuator is correctly opened/closed during heating, whether I tell it to route to the heater or the solar, it's just when it's done heating and the pump is still on that it routes incorrectly. Any more ideas? Thanks again for all of the past help on this, it's extremely far beyond my expertise...
 
So the solar only turns on when the heater turns off? Sounds like the controller is treating the valve like a heater bypass instead of a solar valve. Double check the configuration for that valve and make sure it is a solar valve and not a bypass valve.

one thing you could do is just disable the valve to the position for the heater.
 
The solar turns on in two situations:

1) When it is supposed to - when it is set to solar only, or solar preferred mode.
2) When the temperature of the pool reaches the desired temperature and no more heating is required, but the schedule on the controller requires that the pump still be running.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'solar valve' vs. 'bypass valve'. I am wired into Valve C which the manual says is used for solar.

I do like the idea of 'disabling' the valve, and I may proceed with that soon. Thank you for your response!

Brian
 
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