Please help identify air-intake (solar related)

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A.O.Smith USQ1102 1hp 1-speed. Old & rebuilt. I inherited it with the house and have been anxiously waiting for it to die so I can replace it; but it's a warhorse. One more piece of anecdotal evidence: there is a suction-side Hayward cleaner that zooms over the floor (past experience tells me that diminished pump performance or dirty filters/lines will slow that to a crawl).

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I *think* I've solved my problem. Apparently, the filter is causing pressure to be insufficient to close the VRV. As an experiment, while cleaning it (yet again), I closed up the filter w/o the cartridge. Without that impediment, the pump was able to push all the air out and, in a couple of minutes, reduce the bubbles to zero. Plus, when the solar turns off, I now can hear the VRV open.

I'm going to put in a new cartridge, but I suppose it could also be the pump failing. My experience says I always hear a failing pump before I notice diminished capacity; it sounds normal.

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If the filter was clogged, pressure would be higher than normal, not lower than normal. More than likely it is something before the filter causing the problem. Removing the filter may have helped some but it may not be the root cause of the problem.

What is the height of the panels?
 
I had the exact same issue end of last season. Local company came and inspected the solar, no issues there. They cleaned my filters and resolved it for about a week then I got bubbles again. I had my pool guy clean my filters, again. Again that solved it for about a week than bubbles again. I also had to ramp up my pump speeds to get my deck jets and bubbler working to the same levels as before. So I just replaced my filters (2 yrs old, but the original ones from the build) so I broke down and replaced the filters and it solved all my issues, no more bubbles.
 
mas985 said:
If the filter was clogged, pressure would be higher than normal, not lower than normal. More than likely it is something before the filter causing the problem. Removing the filter may have helped some but it may not be the root cause of the problem.

What is the height of the panels?
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Yes, maybe.

The panels start at about 10' and go up such that the VRV is about 16-18'.
 
You need to get some eyes on that pipe in question that is up on the roof. Either the drain down valve at some point stopped functioning (probably when you stopped hearing the horn) and allowed the negative pressure in the panels to occur. That, and the water that was then trapped in the panels continuing to collect heat, collapsed pipe, and created the air leak when the pipe became deformed. At that point, depending how badly the pipe was leaking, you may have witnessed some water leaking from the panels(roof) when the solar was on. All of this is speculation though until you actually get someone on the roof to see what has happened.
 
Regarding pressure, the 6psi I previously reported was wrong. I noticed no matter what I did, it never went above 6 (because it moved from 0 to 6, I expected it was somewhat accurate; but no). So I bought a new one that, with a brand-new filter, now tells me: SolarOFF=6, SolarON=12.

I have the solar techs scheduled for Monday, but I'm thinking of deferring that $100 visit until I have more data. The crushed(?) pipes are my only known problem. My original concern has been addressed by a new filter. To recap, I had severe air intrusion on the solar-return line.

My current working theory is that my cartridge filter, notwithstanding a thorough hose rinsing, must have been grimey to the point of preventing sufficient pressure up-roof to keep the VRV closed. So the VRV was then allowing air into the system. A failing pressure gauge masked the high pressure condition at the filter. At the current 12psi, the VRV sounds like it is working, i.e. opening & closing as the solar turns off/on.

So, to impose further, I would appreciate opinions as to the validity of that theory. And then whether, all else seeming good, do I need to pay for someone to check out the apparently crushed pipes. Thank you!

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I only have a distant look, but they seem to be 6-8' of two or three damage areas that are partially caved (wild guess: 60% reduced circumference). The overall span of the subject area makes a 90° turn, with about 3-4' from one panel section to the hip, then a turn and 3-4' to the next panel section.

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It is possible the crushed pipe is creating a significant drop in pressure. You will want to fix those pipes anyway so you might as well get that done to see if it solves the problem. Also, you might want to go with CPVC instead of PVC.
 
I would continue on with the solar appointment.

1. Repair all the damaged plumbing on the roof. What you can see as well as what you cant.

2. Drain down valve, while it works now, is still suspect (to me). Something caused the crushed pipes. Remember, they(the pipes), are the symptom, and not the problem.
 
Solar tech came out today. He replaced the collapsed pipe, so I could see it better: about 1/3 crushed, so it still had capacity. The VRV seemed to be functioning well, although he commented that the ball appeared slightly deformed. The only changes were about 15' of replacement (was and is CVPC) pipe and a new VRV.

One thought, maybe totally impractical: why not TWO vacuum relief valves?

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why not TWO vacuum relief valves?
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If plumbed right next to one another, it would give some redundancy for failure to open.

But I think the reason the VRV failed was because the water was kept in the panels by a running pump with the solar valve turned off. The water stays in the panels and continues to heat up and when the VRV melts, it won't open when the pump eventually shuts off and the suction collapses the pipe.

If you have a two speed or VS pump and it switches to low when solar turns off, then the panels will drain. If you have a single speed pump and it continues to run, the water stays in the panels. Programming the appropriate run time to take this into account could help.
 
One thing I saw that I didn't know before was that the Jandy valve that controls the solar had a hole, about 1/4", drilled in the shut-off flange. I'm not grasping exactly what its purpose is, but it has the effect of allowing water to enter the panels (at least to some degree) when off; and likewise to allow some water to bypass the panels when on.

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