Planning a new above/hybrid pool, patio. Looking for thoughts and critique as I start this daunting project.

[jbrinkerhoff]

Here's my current house, deck and pool. This pic is about 5-6 years old at least, as all those trees to the left died from needle rot.

Pool is 24' round Doughboy (c) 1992ish. Its buried about 12-18" in the deepest areas, and ground level on the other side. As you can see there is quite a bit of elevation change from the house/sliding door level to grade. More pics:

Elevation data: From the concrete patio to the top of top deck is 40". Using the top deck as "zero" down to the 2nd level (pool) deck is 24" drop. And of course the pool (4' model) is 38" out of the ground on the "uphill" side, and a full 48" out of the ground on the downhill side.

Why am I posting all of this? Well the lower deck is rotting out for the 3rd time (rebuilt totally in 2008, and deck boards/railings replaced 2 more times since then). And this time the structure underneath is not in good shape either. The upper deck was build in 1992 and is the old, good, CCA treated lumber. Its just now starting to get punky in a few small spots. Either way, next spring, or at most the spring after that, its all coming down. The pool has served us well but the liner is on its last legs, and some of the buried parts of the wall are starting to get rusty. Time to consider something new.

Wife would love a huge patio and in-ground pool. But with the huge elevation change from the house I am not sure thats in the cards. However I started reading about some of these in/on ground pools (Radiant is one, there are others) that can be installed above ground, partially buried, or fully buried. Here's my thoughts (talk me out, or into whatever...)

Deck comes off, pool goes. Build new semi-inground pool more or less where the existing one is (probably a rectangle, or maybe a "freeform"). Roughly 18x30ish. Bury it so that the top is a bit lower to ground level than the current one. Bring in fill and build a patio up to the top of the pool level on the house and uphill side, and install a nice patio, which will require probably 2-3 steps down from the house to patio level. I calculate that VERY roughly I'd need 40-50 yards of fill to achieve rough grade for the area I'm considering. Patio would be 2 steps up from the existing patio level.

This makes it possible to have an inground looking pool, at patio level, with a real inground style finish (pavers or concrete) on at least 2 sides, and either leave the other two sides "above ground" or do a simple retaining wall/walk around treatment. No need to bury the whole thing.

The only other way I come up with something like this is:

1) re-do what we have (variation on the deck / above ground pool theme) I'm not totally opposed to this (could do a LOT more of it myself) - but if I build another deck it will be 100% the best composite stuff I can buy, or aluminum, or something that will outlive me. And does not need any sanding/painting ever.
2) possibly do a partly above ground fiberglass inground pool and patio as above (gotta be a lot more $$)

I am going to meet with Tarson pools in Syracuse NY next week to discuss this idea. There are a number of other dealers around I will talk to too, but not all of them supply these flexible install pools, and not all of those pools have real inground style finishing options available from what I can see.

Looking for thoughts, critique, experiences, ideas, etc. This is upstate NY so we only get to use our yard/pool from mid-May to September (sometimes later these past years).

 

[Strato]

If your budget allows for it and the extra cost would present itself in added home equity I would build a retaining wall and go for an in ground pool. If that money would not come back in the form of increased equity then I think you have a good sounding plan!

 

[jbrinkerhoff]

My wife and I have been discussing the many options, and I have talked to a few local pool installers. Frustratingly, the local Radiant dealer will not install any Radiant shapes other than round or oval. They had some issues with a rectangular one and will not install them at all anymore.

Inground options are all there, but the grading/slope issues remain. An inground pool would be SUBSTANTIALLY downhill from the house. The way we entertain I just cannot see it being an acceptable solution. Not to mention the overall cost.

My wife feels an oval would be fine. I personally don't like ovals - all the PITA factor of a round, with half the swimming area, and not as structurally sound. I prefer something rectangularish (roman, grecian, rectangle, rounded rectangle, "L" etc).

Current leader is Aquastar (Michigan) - AquaStar | America's Best On-Ground Swimming Pools
After having a 30+ minute conversation with the owner, I am quite convinced that pool is high quality and will outlast me. I am leaning towards something around 18x30. I was originally thinking of going "across" the back of the deck (parallel to the house) but my son and I were talking and he is of the opinion that going out into the yard makes more sense. He may be right, and looking at the lie of the land, that would be almost already flat that direction. Very minimal grading needed.

I think we would bring the existing lower deck out to about the middle of the current pool, the have the new pool start and go another 28-30' (depending on pool size), and do a full deck surround of at least 4' all the way around.

As for decking / plans / materials - WOW there are a lot more choices than I ever thought, and I was plugged into this stuff 5 years ago when we last re-did our lower deck.
Composites, full PVC plastics, mineral based composites, full on stone, paver systems, bamboo, etc. My primary requirement, regardless, is that it be 100% maintenance free (other than washing it) and outlive me. (25+ years realistic lifespan).

Here are just a few of the choices I am researching and have requested samples from:

Wood:
Kebony

Pavers:
Instant Paver Deck on Wood Frame - Deck Paver Project
Midlake - Porfido

"Stone Deck Systems" (Tiles, Pavers, formed stone, actual stone, etc):
Tanzite Decking (NICE)
Stonedek (Tiles, stone) Silka Systems
Dexstone
Gratedex (system for tile/stone decks)
Paverdeck (Steel deck system for pavers/stone - structure and surface)

Non wood organic:
MOSO bamboo decking (low maint)

Non Wood composite:
Deckorators Vault, Voyage - mineral based composite very woodlike, much lighter than standard composite, stiffer, cooler

Full PVC lumber:

Fiberon
Wolf
AZEK

To be frank, I have not even compared cost on any of these systems. As far as the "wood" systems (things that look like deck boards) I really like the Dekorators Voyage. It looks very very woodlike, has a nice grain, great traction, and is suprisingly light. Like dried pine light. VERY stiff, no organic material at all, and a lower coefficient of expansion than any other composite (about the same as hardwood). So far thats the leader for me for "wood/deck look".

I am also very interested in the idea of a "patio" style deck. I had not even realized these were a thing until last week. Pavers, Tiles, Stone, Brick - all possible. Pretty neat.

Any of these can be tied into the Aquastar pool seamlessly, and look like an inground pool.
Advantage to all of this stuff is that I can do a lot of it myself / subcontract with guys I know. Probably all of it. I might consider hiring a local pool guy to help with the pool, pool base, and liner.

Ahh, choices! Time to talk to my construction guy, and my grading/landscaping guy to see what they think.

 

[Lisa Robbins]

Hello, J. The hubs and I just had a round Radiant pool installed. We have quite a slope and that is the biggest reason we chose the Radiant. We are planning to backfill between the pool and the house so that we can pour a patio maybe half way around the pool to give it an inground look. Then we plan to cover the rest of the exposed pool with stacked stone and have a wooden deck built around that part just to have more level area for sunning, eating, etc. A couple more quick notes...we considered inground but did not want to add to our property taxes, and I never thought I'd want a round pool either until we enjoyed the heck out of a second hand intex pool for several years. Best $200 I've ever spent!

 

[RLP]

If you were going to backfill and create a patio, Id look in to a recycled lightweight aggregate for the fill.

like what they used to rebuild I 95 last week.

 

[TimZ]

Our yard has a similar amount of slope, maybe a little more. We built an in-ground pool that basically split the difference in elevation: built a short retaining wall on the high side and then graded dirt from the dig up to the low side. We put all pavers on the high side, with just stepping stones along the low side so that we don't have concerns about retaining the paver base. Our pool is a little farther from the house due to need to avoid septic, etc. We looked at a bunch of options for pool elevation and how to deal with the slope. One option that our pool builder had used for other projects is to have the downhill side of the pool out of the ground. He builds the walls thicker and then does stucco or something like that on the exposed face. I think this picture from their website is one of those kind of pools. It costs a little extra compared to a standard pool but is way cheaper (and easier to maintain) than e.g., an infinity pool. It might be an option for you if in-ground is in the budget.

Our pool has a paver patio, but I rebuilt our deck with Azek boards and am also currently in the process of doing a raised paver patio with the StoneDeks Silca System (framing/grates are done, will start laying pavers soon). The reason we went with full PVC boards instead of composite lumber for the deck is that we left a bunch of samples out in the sun and then stepped on them with bare feet. The PVC boards were cooler even in a darker color. Still hot, but "I can walk quickly across this hot deck" instead of "no way can I step on that!"