Phase out of gas pool heaters in CA

[kul]

Whelp I was watching the local news and learned that CA is going to phase out gas pool heaters. Not sure what the electric heating option will be (or is) but wanted to share:

Own a pool in Southern California? New air-quality rule requires electric water heaters

The landmark rule from South Coast AQMD would phase out more than 1 million natural gas-powered appliances, including those that heat swimming pools and hot tubs, and require them to be replaced with electric water heaters.

www.aol.com

There has been a push to ban gas powered appliances in new homes but this is for all homes new and old .

I also read another article that future pumps starting sometime in 2025 will be required to have internet connectivity: “Here’s how it’ll work: Starting in September 2025, all pool pumps sold in California will have to be able to connect to the internet and operate by default from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Anyone building a new swimming pool at home (hot tubs are excluded) or replacing their pump will have to install the new version, but will still be able to use the pump outside daytime hours.”

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/california-climate/2023/10/18/california-is-coming-for-your-pools-00122374

I’m not super excited about making changes but seems there may not be a choice in the future.

 

[proavia]

Did they indicate how all those new electric appliances are going to be powered when they can't provide enough electricity on a continual basis now? Add in all the electric vehicles and they will be back to rolling brown/black outs in no time.

Typical reaction to a perceived problem.
I guess they can build new natural gas fired powerplants somewhere to fulfill the extra electrical need.

 

[kul]

All good points. Somehow it’s supposed to work out. I hope it does, but right now most I know with electric cars complain about the lack of charging infrastructure and just how long it takes and so on. Seems like a headache is waiting in the wings.

 

[proavia]

Somehow it’s supposed to work out.

That "somehow" is the part they haven't worked out yet.
Same with the water situation in SoCal.

The charging infrastructure is an ongoing issue most everywhere. And the time to fully charge is another issue.
I'm hopeful both will get worked out in the next few years

I left there over 30 years ago. Can't say I miss the over-regulation all that much.
Still fun to go visit family and friends a few times a year though.

 

[Hal3]

Insert snide remark about California here " xxxxxx ".

Not expected to be a problem in Texas.

 

[wayner]

Did they indicate how all those new electric appliances are going to be powered when they can't provide enough electricity on a continual basis now? Add in all the electric vehicles and they will be back to rolling brown/black outs in no time.

Typical reaction to a perceived problem.
I guess they can build new natural gas fired powerplants somewhere to fulfill the extra electrical need.

Doesn't California now have an excess of power during the day due to solar production?

 

[phonedave]

Did they indicate how all those new electric appliances are going to be powered when they can't provide enough electricity on a continual basis now? Add in all the electric vehicles and they will be back to rolling brown/black outs in no time.

Typical reaction to a perceived problem.
I guess they can build new natural gas fired powerplants somewhere to fulfill the extra electrical need.

Bulk electric generation is usually more efficient than point of use gas appliances. But you are 100% correct on the issues with infrastructure. They are talking about a bill in NJ that would make all new car sales be either electric or plug in hybrid. I don't think the current grid can handle it.

 

[phonedave]

Doesn't California now have an excess of power during the day due to solar production?
View attachment 587463

Are they using something like pump storage to handle the night time load? Maybe with no water, pump storage is not an option.

 

[wayner]

Are they using something like pump storage to handle the night time load? Maybe with no water, pump storage is not an option.

According to the chart I posted in the evening they are using batteries and large hydro. But I don't know what it means that they have more hydro generation overnight than during the day. Perhaps it is storage.

 

[Wolfepack88]

I look at this as sort of like when a 3 year old says they want to be an Astronaut or a MLB player etc, cute but not realistic. The cleanest burning fossil fuel that we have and we want to push an unsustainable solution which is vastly more expensive let alone inefficient. Nobody wants to tell the truth to the 30 second soundbite generation that we use fossil fuels to generate electricity which will grossly increase if we go all electric. Oh by the way when is the last time we saw a monopoly keep prices at current levels. Once gas and oil are gone for consumers how much do you think your electrical bill is going to be??

 

[wayner]

A lot of places don't use much, if any, fossil fuels to generate electricity. The province of Quebec, for example. I live in Ontario and the vast majority of our electricity is generated by hydro and nuclear. Gas is used for peaking, etc. Solar and wind are now cheaper than gas plants, for new generation, but they have the intermittency and seasonality issue. Renewable energy has fewer negative externalities, like pollution, including CO2 emissions, and these are being priced into the market more than they were in the past - many places now have carbon taxes.

It is likely that prices will go up in the future, but it isn't clear that they will go up more than inflation. Electricity prices are regulated and a utility can't just raise prices on a whim. But the utilities will try to get prices maximized.

 

[phonedave]

A lot of places don't use much, if any, fossil fuels to generate electricity. The province of Quebec, for example. I live in Ontario and the vast majority of our electricity is generated by hydro and nuclear. Gas is used for peaking, etc. Solar and wind are now cheaper than gas plants, for new generation, but they have the intermittency and seasonality issue. Renewable energy has fewer negative externalities, like pollution, including CO2 emissions, and these are being priced into the market more than they were in the past - many places now have carbon taxes.

It is likely that prices will go up in the future, but it isn't clear that they will go up more than inflation. Electricity prices are regulated and a utility can't just raise prices on a whim. But the utilities will try to get prices maximized.

I used to work for the NY State Department of Public Service as a valuation engineer for the Electric, Water & Gas division. NY State wheels in a lot of power via the interconnects between both Ontario Hydro and Hydro Quebec.

And you are correct about rates. Utilities have to apply for a rate increase, and then the Regulatory body has to approve it. An interesting note is that often the rates are LOWER than they really could be. Commissioners are appointed government positions. They have an interest in staying in their job. Keeping the voting population happy by keeping rates lower is in their direct interest. There were times when I worked on tariffs when an ElCo could justify something costing say $1 per customer, and they were permitted a 50 cent increase.