pH and TA

[jmgossman]

Hey all! I have a 15K gallon, Marcite pool. SWCG.

Im using a K2006 test kit and my readings this morning were:

pH7.4
FC 10
Comb Chl 0
CYA 70
Cal Hardness 400
TA 110

I'm changing the settings on the SWCG to get it dialed in, so I'll get the FC down to about 5.

My question/concern is with the TA. It was a little higher, about 120, and I added Muriatic acid per pool math to bring the pH down to 7.2. The TA dropped 10, but my pH isnt coming up very quickly, even with 2 fountains aerating. I want to get the TA down to the low end of ideal, 60-65, because I want to add Borax. The article/forum post I read here says start with TA on the low end. I read that Borax will raise the pH (which is why you add so much Muriatic acid to combat the rise in pH). I guess my question is: Can I add Borax to raise the pH and add Muriatic acid to lower the TA until I get the TA down to 60ish, or will the Borax raise the TA as well as the pH? I read on here that the only way to raise pH is through aeration, which is what pool math recommends. But sodium carbonate raises pH also. Is it just that aeration raises pH without impacting any other levels?

 

[Newdude]

Is it just that aeration raises pH without impacting any other levels?

Correct.

because I want to add Borax

That's the hard way to add borates. Use boric acid from Duda Diesel and it's one and done, not the 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 121212 punch of borax and MA.

Why do you want to add borates ? The 60 TA and minimizing water features when not in use will help the Ph stability a good deal.

I'm changing the settings on the SWCG to get it dialed in, so I'll get the FC down to about 5.

Please don't. It's GREAT where it is. Your pool still swings, albeit less than a liquid chlorine pool. 5 leaves you next to no room for error, or when any system hiccups happen. We added a range to the old single target chart for this exact reason. Roll on the high side of target range, never the low side.

 

[jmgossman]

Correct.

That's the hard way to add borates. Use boric acid from Duda Diesel and it's one and done, not the 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 121212 punch of borax and MA.

Why do you want to add borates ? The 60 TA and minimizing water features when not in use will help the Ph stability a good deal.

Please don't. It's GREAT where it is. Your pool still swings, albeit less than a liquid chlorine pool. 5 leaves you next to no room for error, or when any system hiccups happen. We added a range to the old single target chart for this exact reason. Roll on the high side of target range, never the low side.

View attachment 594446

I was shooting for 5 FC because when I use pool math and input a CYA of 70, that's the number it says is my target free chlorine with 3-10 being ok. I assumed since that was the number pool math gave, it was the number to shoot for!

 

[wireform]

5 is minimum target and you don't want to hang there either. Nothing wrong with being in the 10 territory as you're nowhere close to the slam level of 28. I keep all the pools a bit north of 10 when the CYA is 70.

 

[proavia]

For CYA 70, an FC of 3 is the absolute minimum. Like a cliff you don't want to fall off.

Target is 5-10. Always shoot for the top end of the range to give yourself a bit of wiggle room. Swimmer load, debris, critters, etc will use chlorine. Even with a SWG that runs 24/7, your FC will dip and can easily drop from 5 to below 3.

 

[jmgossman]

Thanks guys! The reasoning behind keeping it higher makes total sense!

Now, if I could get my pH to rise so I can add more muriatic acid to bring my TA down!

 

[Newdude]

Now, if I could get my pH to rise so I can add more muriatic acid to bring my TA down!

So the Ph is more stable ?

Never look a gift stable Ph in the mouth.

 

[proavia]

If your pH isn't rising much, no need to lower the TA.
As you add muriatic acid to lower pH, your TA will lower a bit as well.
Seems like yours has found its happy place.

 

[jmgossman]

So the Ph is more stable ?

Never look a gift stable Ph in the mouth.

My pH used to hold steady at 7.6, now it seems to be staying at 7.4, even after a good bit of rain yesterday. According to the chart my ideal pH is 7.6-7.8, although 7.4 is acceptable. My TA, on the other hand, is 110, which is over teh max level. Id like to get TA down into the ideal range, but dont want to dump MA into the pool to lower the TA and in turn lower the pH too much. I want to get the TA down around 60 so I can add Borax and MA, although I may just get boric acid and go that route.

 

[proavia]

Why do you want to add Borax/boric acid?
Don't fixate on "ideal" - use the recommended ranges.
If your pH is relatively stable, don't mess with TA.

Share your PoolMath logs - use the same email and password you use for your forum account and turn on sharing in PoolMath to link to your forum account.
Be sure track salt, water temperature, combined chlorine and CSI are on.

 

[jmgossman]

Why do you want to add Borax/boric acid?
Don't fixate on "ideal" - use the recommended ranges.
If your pH is relatively stable, don't mess with TA.

Share your PoolMath logs - use the same email and password you use for your forum account and turn on sharing in PoolMath to link to your forum account.
Be sure track salt, water temperature, combined chlorine and CSI are on.

will do re: share poolmath/poolmath logs. I want to add borates because it sounds like there is some upside in terms of water quality, feel and appearance and no real downside. There is the benefit of helping to stabilize the pH as well.

 

[Newdude]

Most find it unnecessary to go down that road if they give the TFP method an honest try.

We recommend getting a TFP season under your belt and then deciding if there's any need.

 

[proavia]

I agree with @Newdude - between using the TFP method and having a SWG, the water is betterthan most any pool you have been in previously.
And getting at least a full year in while following the TFP method is important before adding something else to try to mitigate what seems like a non-issue in your pool.

Do you have dogs that drink out of the pool?
If so, stay away from borates.

Your pH seems to be pretty stable. No need to add another chemical (borates) to control it.