Pentair warranty - pool store test required

[BDY]

The salinity ppm difference between my IC40 and the Taylor kit has finally grown larger than 500…now it’s 600-700 as the pool is cooling down. Yet the temperature reading on the cell and the water itself are matching. So I called Pentair warranty and made it through a couple levels to a specialist.

They first asked if I had been inspecting the cell every 60 days and acid washing it every 90 days. Then they asked for a pool store chemistry test () and to make sure it was a complete test. They want to make sure that the chlorine is less than 4 (“preferably 3, but can go up to 4”) and the ph, metals and phosphates are ok in case I’ve been “damaging” the cell.

I tried to rationally talk with them about the salinity and the chemistry and they were adamant about having a pool store test and not going forward without it. Couldn’t get to any other service person either as it’s in the file now as a request.

So I find myself with the SWG off and waiting for my FC to drop into low end of target, so I can go to store. I can get pH into their range but CYA, CH, and whatever else will be higher.

I can’t imagine that pentair is going to be this pedantic on the chemistry when it’s a salinity sensing issue. But maybe I’m wrong….

How does one normally handle situations like this? Just grin and bear it, game the system, and visit a few stores and pick the best test results??

 

[Texas Splash]

How does one normally handle situations like this?

Unfortunately, they are touting the "company line" and it's common with several agencies in the pool industry. It's unfortunate that some of those company techs, just like the pool stores they want proof from, are completely ignorant about chemistry or their potential impacts. Acid washing a cell every 90 days is just one example. Very frustrating.

From a business standpoint however, they have to have "something" established to protect their interests, so they publish (very) basic guidelines to enforce some sort of standard. If they didn't have something, you can only imagine the thousands of pool owners who don't care for their water properly who would be requesting replacement parts. It's a horrible scenario and not much that you can do but try to color between the lines for any warranty request.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

The salinity ppm difference between my IC40 and the Taylor kit has finally grown larger than 500…now it’s 600-700 as the pool is cooling down. Yet the temperature reading on the cell and the water itself are matching. So I called Pentair warranty and made it through a couple levels to a specialist.

They first asked if I had been inspecting the cell every 60 days and acid washing it every 90 days. Then they asked for a pool store chemistry test () and to make sure it was a complete test. They want to make sure that the chlorine is less than 4 (“preferably 3, but can go up to 4”) and the ph, metals and phosphates are ok in case I’ve been “damaging” the cell.

I tried to rationally talk with them about the salinity and the chemistry and they were adamant about having a pool store test and not going forward without it. Couldn’t get to any other service person either as it’s in the file now as a request.

So I find myself with the SWG off and waiting for my FC to drop into low end of target, so I can go to store. I can get pH into their range but CYA, CH, and whatever else will be higher.

I can’t imagine that pentair is going to be this pedantic on the chemistry when it’s a salinity sensing issue. But maybe I’m wrong….

How does one normally handle situations like this? Just grin and bear it, game the system, and visit a few stores and pick the best test results??

Odds on them actually going back to the pool store to retrieve a copy of the report is not likely. I would be tempted to get a pool store test, PDF the report, then edit those numbers to match what they want to see.

Mine generally gets off by more than 500 but it isn't until the water temp starts dropping significantly, like in the lower 70's.

--Jeff

 

[Newdude]

Most warranties aren't worth the paper they are printed on, full of manufacturer friendly loopholes. When they notice a pattern of payouts, they add another page to the ridiculously long terms and conditions IMO.

 

[PoolStored]

I would be tempted to get a pool store test, PDF the report, then edit those numbers to match what they want to see.

For the record, TFP does not encourage nor condone fraud.

 

[JupiterFL]

Interested in seeing how you end up. My IC-40's reading of salinity is off by more than 500 too.

 

[Newdude]

For the record, TFP does not encourage nor condone fraud.

Jeff said he'd be tempted, likely as we all would. Just because we *could* doesn't suggest we *would*. Because fraud is bad.

 

[BDY]

I’m going to try and get my pool back into range and then take it to atore

The ppm different started life at 500 and is now at 750 with an 85 degree pool

I don’t want to run the pool salty enough to taste nor do I want to run it at the edge of “low salt” which already bit me once this year when I went by Taylor and not by sensor

 

[rjb1211]

I find this very disturbing. The consensus on TFP is that phosphates are a pool store scam and can be ignored. Does that mean that everyone on here has voided their warranty?

 

[Newdude]

Does that mean that everyone on here has voided their warranty?

In a way, yes. None of us have documented weekly pool store tests from day 1.

Even if they did, life would happen within a couple of seasons. If one was to fall ill or go on vacation, they'd need to have a neighbor/friend get those weeks tests.

They might not demand to see the tests for a SWG but they surely would for a $40k fiberglass shell, or a pebbletech (etc) claim, if they were looking for an easy out.

 

[rjb1211]

The salinity ppm difference between my IC40 and the Taylor kit has finally grown larger than 500…now it’s 600-700 as the pool is cooling down. Yet the temperature reading on the cell and the water itself are matching. So I called Pentair warranty and made it through a couple levels to a specialist.

They first asked if I had been inspecting the cell every 60 days and acid washing it every 90 days. Then they asked for a pool store chemistry test () and to make sure it was a complete test. They want to make sure that the chlorine is less than 4 (“preferably 3, but can go up to 4”) and the ph, metals and phosphates are ok in case I’ve been “damaging” the cell.

I tried to rationally talk with them about the salinity and the chemistry and they were adamant about having a pool store test and not going forward without it. Couldn’t get to any other service person either as it’s in the file now as a request.

So I find myself with the SWG off and waiting for my FC to drop into low end of target, so I can go to store. I can get pH into their range but CYA, CH, and whatever else will be higher.

I can’t imagine that pentair is going to be this pedantic on the chemistry when it’s a salinity sensing issue. But maybe I’m wrong….

How does one normally handle situations like this? Just grin and bear it, game the system, and visit a few stores and pick the best test results??

I looked at the manual and the warranty. The manual says:

Monthly Service
To ensure that the correct chemical balance is maintained in your pool, it is important to perform the following recommended salt and pool water tests every month using a reliable test method.
1. Salt Level Test: Check salt display lights on the unit and check that the green “GOOD” light is on
and is not flashing.
• If the red LOW LED salt light is on, no chlorine is being produced. Add salt to the pool water
(see charts beginning on page 13).
• If salt level does not rise after 24 hours, see “Troubleshooting,” page 33.
2. Pool Water Sample: Take a sample of the pool water to your local pool store for testing.

From another section:

Optimum Pool Water Chemistry Conditions for Salt Water Pools
(using the IntelliChlor Electronic Chlorine Generator)
In accordance with the Association of Pool and Spa Professionals (APSP) standards, it is recommended that the following pool water chemistry conditions be maintained on an on going basis to help protect pool users, pool related equipment and surfaces in and around the pool. These values are important to maintaining the pool equipment in proper operating condition and preventing corrosion, liming or other problems. The IntelliChlor Electronic Chlorine Generator is warranted to operate properly only if these conditions are met. For more information, refer to your local agency having jurisdiction, NSPI (National Spa and Pool Institute), the CDC (Centers for Disease Control), or the WHO (World Health Organization).


Note that it says recommended in both sections. Reading the warranty there is nothing that says the warranty is void without a pool store test. I would suggest that you call them back and ask to be shown where is says your warranty is not valid.

 

[reggiehammond]

If the manufacturer insists you acid wash every 90 days (thus dramatically shortening the life of equipment), then they don't give a dang about you.
I wouldn't have any issue firing up Photoshop to make them honor their warranty. It's a stupid world we live in, but we have to live in it.

 

[Homebrewale]

Most warranties aren't worth the paper they are printed on, full of manufacturer friendly loopholes. When they notice a pattern of payouts, they add another page to the ridiculously long terms and conditions IMO.

For my fiberglass pool warranty, I had to choose between following the pool company chemistry guidelines or TFP numbers. I chose TFP because the pool company number would likely result in green pools.

 

[JupiterFL]

@BDY any update on this?

 

[BDY]

Waiting on new salt reagents to arrive today or tomorrow then will post an update. Have had a few go arounds with various pool stores but was waiting to rule out a reagent issue as mine expired 9/23

 

[BDY]

Update

I went to two separate Leslie's and one PinchPenny to get tested. The PinchPenny used a chemical test (not Taylor but not sure) as well as a TDS salt meter, the two Leslie's used a AccuBlu spin disk and a TDS salt meter each. One of the Leslie's sat there and calibrated the disc for me as I was talking to the manager.

All 3 stores read between 3400-3500 on their six tests, which matches the IC40 reading. My Taylor test is 21 drops or 4200.

Of the 3 stores, two were no help (big surprise), the 3rd was actually quite a knowledgeable manager who would not have been out of place here. He suggested as a last resot that I try new reagents, as my reagents show expiring the end of this month. I ordered new regeants from TFTestKits and tested today and got 21 drops with both old and new regeants.

So at this point the Taylor kit is showing 4200 for both old and new regeants. The 3 pool stores and the IC40 are all showing about 3500.

I'm at a loss...... any ideas?

Brian

PS - I cleaned the vial really well on both Taylor tests with alcohol and distilled water, and was very careful with the drops. The speedstir did the mixing and the vial flashed to brick red right at 21 drops.

 

[Newdude]

So at this point the Taylor kit is showing 4200 for both old and new regeants. The 3 pool stores and the IC40 are all showing about 3500.

I'm at a loss...... any ideas?

I'm under the impression that 'in range' levels have a +/- 400 variance with Taylor and more with other methods. If so, and the pool was actual 3800 or 3900, both you and the pool stores are correct.

But let's back up a second. Does it even matter ? If the cell is reading 3400 it should be happily producing and you can certainly try arguing with it, but you'll get nowhere.

With 49.77 inches of rain annually in Houston (fun fact of the day for me, THANKS), both you and the cell will read lower over time as occasional chlorine/MA won't accumulate salt fast enough.

The cell's test, along with the meters, is a conductivity test with temperature and other metals in the water such as calcium skewing the conductivity. If it's any consolation, you're likely more right than the rest of them, but again, what does it even matter ?

 

[BDY]

i guess my issue is

A) taste - would like to run the pool lower but if I do I flirt with low salt warning and have already had one unplanned disaster on vacation earlier this year when it shut down

B) mechanical - I was under the impression that if you have too high a salinity for cells that if can damage the cell. Pentair quotes a range of 3600-4500 and says target 3600. My salt actually increased this summer from 4000 to 4200…I’m assuming from daily MA adds so I don’t want to flirt with disaster.

C) sanity - driving me nuts if it’s working correctly or not. It’s been like this from day 1 but the delta has been getting steadily worse this summer. It sat at 500 ppm delta for a few months and now is at 700.

Am I overthinking this? New pool owner jitters?

 

[Newdude]

^^^^^^^ all points fair enough. Carry on.

I imagine the salt level will start dropping once the Ph / MA gets under control.

 

[BDY]

Honestly not sure next steps…. i guess I can wait to see what happens as it has 30 months more warranty on it

Otherwise penrair customer service needs a pool store argh