Pentair vs Hayward energy star numbers: please explain

[khobar]

Hi,

I currently have a 10-year old single speed 1HP Pentair pump and am looking to replace it with a variable speed. The two main choices I'm looking at are Hayward SP2303VSP and the Pentair Superflo VS. Both of these are comparably priced, both are pretty similar, and both are Energy Star certified. However, I've been trying to figure out if one is more energy efficient than the other. When I went to ENERGY STAR | The simple choice for energy efficiency., I found this:

Pentair Superflo VS 342001

Curve-A Energy Factor (gallons/Wh):	9.15
Curve-C Energy Factor (gallons/Wh):	11.46
Curve-B Energy Factor (gallons/Wh):	6.04

Hayward MaxFlo VS SP2303VSP

Curve-A Energy Factor (gallons/Wh):	19.21
Curve-C Energy Factor (gallons/Wh):	23.68
Curve-B Energy Factor (gallons/Wh):	12.27

This seems to suggest the Hayward can move roughly twice the amount of water per watt hour? Could someone please explain? Thanks!

 

[mas985]

Mainly it is because the MaxFlo VS has a lower flatter head curve (i.e. impeller diameter/vane width is lower). This type of head curve has better pumping efficiency because less pressure is lost within the pump itself. However, you give up max head for that so the MaxFlo would not be appropriate for a spa that has a high head requirement.

But also you can't compare those energy factors directly unless the flow rates are identical. Otherwise, you are not really comparing apples to apples.

 

[khobar]

Hi Mark and thank you!

Our pool has a waterfall/grotto. It's not very big but it sounds like the Hayward would not be the best choice for that? Or am I misunderstanding?

I found these two graphs:
Unfortunately, they do not show same rpm, but are they helpful in anyway?

 

[mas985]

Waterfalls are usually low head so that should be ok but they do require quite a bit of flow rate. How high is it and how much flow rate does it require?

 

[khobar]

Waterfall is probably about 4' high at most. I do not know what specific flow rate it requires - it's being supplied by a 1HP single-speed Pentair Whisperflo pump currently. My thought was that if and when I wanted to run the waterfall with a VS pump, I'd turn the valve and crank the VS up.

Here is the performance curve for that series pump. Hopefully it's not too small.

 

[mas985]

I put together a series of spreadsheets (see sig) some time ago which helps forum members compare pump performance. It uses the same measurement data from the Energy Star website but it allows you to select RPM and plumbing system to compare pumps. You can also do an economic analysis of the pump's lifetime cost.

If you have a WFE-4, then the MaxFlo will only deliver about 80% of the flow rate at full speed. The SuperFlo, however, is fairly close at full speed.

 

[khobar]

That spreadsheet is exactly what I've been looking for - thank you! Do you know if the SP2303VSP would be different enough to matter? It's said to use a different impeller and is less efficient compared to the 2300.

My pool company recommends we run our current pump for 10+ hours a day during summer to try to keep chlorine in the pool. We have an IC-40 SWG for our 12-15k pool and even then it struggles. So our current plan is to get an energy efficient VS pump, run it at high speed a couple of hours for vacuuming, then kick it down for filtration and chlorination.

 

[mas985]

Do you know if the SP2303VSP would be different enough to matter?

It would be about 20% less flow rate so it really depends on how you want the waterfall to look. If you don't mind it looking less dynamic, it should be ok. If your current pump is still working, then you could try to redirect just part of the flow to the waterfall and see how it looks.

My pool company recommends we run our current pump for 10+ hours a day during summer to try to keep chlorine in the pool.

Most pools can get by with less than 4 hours per day of run time. I only run mine 1-2 hours during the winter and 4-5 hours in summer mainly for solar. My SWG produces about the same FC as yours.

We have an IC-40 SWG for our 12-15k pool and even then it struggles.

That should not be. You probably have a nascent algae bloom eating up the chlorine. Have you run an OCLT?

So our current plan is to get an energy efficient VS pump, run it at high speed a couple of hours for vacuuming, then kick it down for filtration and chlorination.

After the high speed run time, you may just find that you don't need much more run time if any. Your SWG should be able to produce enough FC for your pool size in less than 2 hours unless you have algae growing in it.

 

[khobar]

The supposed reason our SWG struggles is because of the extreme heat in the summer.

I have not run an OCLT. I take my water once a week to Leslie's to have it tested and then follow their recommendations. Seems to keep the pool looking good, but more often than not the chlorine is low. They ask how long I run the pool, and shake their heads if I say six to eight hours. "You have to run it ten hours, at least." Of course in the summer I cringe when I get the power bill. Hence my interest in VS.

Right now I'm running only 4 hours since it's too cold for the SWG. I have a floater in there for chlorine.

I guess I need to invest in a good test kit so I can do my own testing.

 

[mas985]

I take my water once a week to Leslie's to have it tested and then follow their recommendations.

Skip the pool store, most will lead you astray. You have everything you need to know here and you can get everything else at other places than the pool store.

I guess I need to invest in a good test kit so I can do my own testing.

Absolutely. Only then can you assess the situation properly. Water temp does have an affect on chlorine levels but so does UV. Are you keeping CYA levels at 80 ppm? Of course you would need a good test kit to determine that because most pool stores are horrible at doing CYA tests.

 

[needsajet]

...TFP newbie to TFP newbie

To save operating costs and do less maintenance, trust Trouble Free Pool all the way. This forum is unlike most. If anyone says something misleading or wrong, there's experts that correct it.

Re pool stores, to verify, get a clean pail of water and fill three clean water bottles. Take one to each of three pool $tores and compare the results and recommendations. They are guided by the second and third slide in the pool store employee training manual, titled "Belittle customer's pool knowledge: get them worried" and "Be creative: it's a $40 sale no matter what."

 

[Divin Dave]

Absolutely you should get a reliable test kit (The TF100 is best bang for the buck-only available online) and test the water yourself. And you should maintian your chemical levels using the TFP recommendations which can be found by clicking the pool school button.

The supposed reason our SWG struggles is because of the extreme heat in the summer.

I have not run an OCLT. I take my water once a week to Leslie's to have it tested and then follow their recommendations. Seems to keep the pool looking good, but more often than not the chlorine is low. They ask how long I run the pool, and shake their heads if I say six to eight hours. "You have to run it ten hours, at least." Of course in the summer I cringe when I get the power bill. Hence my interest in VS.

Right now I'm running only 4 hours since it's too cold for the SWG. I have a floater in there for chlorine.

I guess I need to invest in a good test kit so I can do my own testing.

 

[khobar]

Thanks! Yup, I'm a newbie here but am very glad I found the forum.

I have been going to the local Leslie's for about 10 years, and yes I bought the PhosFree + on their recommendation, but they've actually been pretty tame in terms of trying to sell me stuff which is why I don't mind shopping there for some things.