Nightmare pool install, need advice..

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E

Erealpixie

0
Aug 19, 2017
22
Waynesville NC
Hey everyone, I am new here, I'm not sure this is the correct spot for my question but I am looking for advice. We hired a pool company to install our fiberglass pool and have had a semi lackluster experience from the go, starting with being told it takes an approx 10 days dig to swim ( he said actually it is 5 days but they tell everyone 10 in case of rain days) and we are now closing In on day 30 with sporadic work here and there by a couple of workers at a time. Anyways we finally had the concrete set up to pour (late yesterday afternoon) and there was a serious lack of communication between the PB and the concrete guys. They ended up showing late to the job while the concrete truck was already here hardening so they started pouring at a breakneck speed and realized halfway through (apparently) that there was not enough concrete so they had to get another load. To make a long story short, they ended up leaving us with a cold joint (and a large discolored line) right in front of the pool by the shallow end entrance. I am not sure what to do at this point as the contract included 5ft of concrete around the pool and we were paying an additional $7 a sq ft for the rest which is probably around $6k and I think it looks like an eye sore. The PB sugggested cutting a joint in it? I'm not sure what that even is but everything with this job feels so hodgy podgy. Any advice?
IMG_2844.jpgIMG_2845.jpgIMG_2847.JPG
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

Danimal92Sport said:
When was it poured? The color may even out over the first couple of weeks?

They also may be planning on cold cutting joints.

Dan
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They finished pouring last night at around 7pm. I would be ok with it if it lightens up but at this point it is a dark line that is obvious since there are no other lines around the pool. Would the cold cutting joints fix the way the line looks? He only mentioned cutting a joint in that spot I feel like if they did cut a joint they would need to do more than one to make it look right, but I thought this is why I hired a pro to do it :/
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

Thanks Kim :)

- - - Updated - - -

Also, We just noticed while the kids were out swimming that the water from the pool is pooling toward the house and not away from it. The concrete was supposed to lean/drain away from the house. Here are some pics.....IMG_2856.jpgIMG_2854 (1).JPG
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

Did they install any deck drains? I have 4 and no concrete control joints seems really odd...

Seems like the PB exaggerated the build time to get your business...not what you want to hear but I have never heard of a 5-10 day pool build :(
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

ctrav said:
Did they install any deck drains? I have 4 and no concrete control joints seems really odd...

Seems like the PB exaggerated the build time to get your business...not what you want to hear but I have never heard of a 5-10 day pool build :(
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Nope, no deck drains and no joints at all. They never even measured to make sure the concrete slopes away from the house etc so I don't have a lot of confidence on how this thing is going to hold up :/ I am just not sure what I should say or request at this point. I am not happy with the line and that the water is pooling toward the house, it seems unprofessional that they didn't use what I am starting to see is the industry standard (joints, slopped ground etc). I guess at this point I am trying to see what my options are either A) have them tear it all out, re-pour and put in control joints and slope the ground or B)put in joints (over the cold joint) and other spots around the pool, grind down the concrete to slope away from the house and request a large discount on the job due to not being done correctly. So not sure where to go from here......
 

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Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

Have you paid for this?

Not to pile on, but it's definitely a sloppy job. Did anyone do any kind of ground prep or grading? When my deck was poured, the concrete guy had spent the previous 3 days making sure all of the ground was levels and graded correctly and my PB even double-checked the work. Things that are missing from your deck -

1. Deck drains and drain pipes to move the water away from the pool and property.
2. Expansion joints- these are joints cut through the thickness of the deck and filled with an asbestos or foam board. Allows for the concrete to expand and contract without cracking
3. Control joint. These are "cuts" in the setup concrete (poured and then allowed to cure for 30-45mins) that are made with special concrete groover that create a pathway for cracks to follow so that when the concrete does crack, you don't see it and it doesn't do so randomly.
4. Expansion joints and deck-drains between your stone patio and the edge of the concrete. The concrete should, in my opinion, never have been poured all the way up to the patio. There should be deck drains there to allow for movement and water flow.

Did they lay down ANY steel reinforcement either rebar or steel mesh? Is the deck electrically bonded to the pool structure? Electrical bonding of the deck is often in the code requirements and it is critical for bather safety.

Honestly, you need to have a very frank and difficult conversation with the PB. I certainly don't envy it because if they are not the receptive type then there's potentially a big fight here. But you are the homeowner, this is your pool and your hard-earned money and you absolutely have every right to demand a quality job.

Good luck.
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

JoyfulNoise said:
Have you paid for this?

Not to pile on, but it's definitely a sloppy job. Did anyone do any kind of ground prep or grading? When my deck was poured, the concrete guy had spent the previous 3 days making sure all of the ground was levels and graded correctly and my PB even double-checked the work. Things that are missing from your deck -

1. Deck drains and drain pipes to move the water away from the pool and property.
2. Expansion joints- these are joints cut through the thickness of the deck and filled with an asbestos or foam board. Allows for the concrete to expand and contract without cracking
3. Control joint. These are "cuts" in the setup concrete (poured and then allowed to cure for 30-45mins) that are made with special concrete groover that create a pathway for cracks to follow so that when the concrete does crack, you don't see it and it doesn't do so randomly.
4. Expansion joints and deck-drains between your stone patio and the edge of the concrete. The concrete should, in my opinion, never have been poured all the way up to the patio. There should be deck drains there to allow for movement and water flow.

Did they lay down ANY steel reinforcement either rebar or steel mesh? Is the deck electrically bonded to the pool structure? Electrical bonding of the deck is often in the code requirements and it is critical for bather safety.

Honestly, you need to have a very frank and difficult conversation with the PB. I certainly don't envy it because if they are not the receptive type then there's potentially a big fight here. But you are the homeowner, this is your pool and your hard-earned money and you absolutely have every right to demand a quality job.

Good luck.
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Thank you for your very helpful reply, I appreciate it. This was honestly like a circus. We payed for the majority of the pool but we have not payed for the concrete as of yet (or the additional sq footage we added on). Our PB has not been back to our place since we had the pool delivered after that I can barely get a hold of him through texts in which case he always acts like I am being a nuisance and bothering him. He has random people come by and nobody seems to know each other or what is going on. This job has been very sloppy and I know very little about construction but some things are obvious. No one came to measure except some guy for 5 min who never came back and was apparently with a different concrete company (it seems the PB changed who he was using mid job of ordering the concrete crew, very odd). The guys who came to lay the forms threw it together (without measuring) and did not complete the forms before the concrete guys came the next day to pour so the forms were not even finished before they poured the concrete. They did put in the steel with the copper wire around the pool itself under the concrete but nothing more than that. The concrete guys where even dipping their concrete brushes in the pool while doing the brushing which irritated me to no end (I was watching from inside the house and they didn't see me. Just so unprofessional. As for the rebar they said it was not needed with the fiber concrete they were using. It does seem very sloppy and honestly the PB is making me very stressed out because he is very condescending. I am paying a lot for this job and wanted it done correctly. For what it looks like so far (the circus as I call it) I could have done that myself (arranging an excavator, concrete pourer ect) but I wanted it done right with someone who was capable of taking the stress off me as I have some health issues due to stress, so this whole situation is starting to feel like a nightmare. I cannot imagine the mess from having to tear this out and re pour but I know the concrete guys admitted there were mistakes all over the place but they told me that is the way it is just going to have to be, but I know I cannot just accept this. I think the PB will not take this easily and will likely fight me on correcting this as everything that has been done has been penny pinching from what it looks like. I was honestly in tears over this last night due to the stress. Should I get other concrete guys to come out and give estimates or just tell him they need to rip it out and repour it correctly?
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

Let me ask you this - is the pool builder licensed as a contractor in your state? Does the state of North Carolina have an official state body that licenses professional contractors? In Arizona, we have the Registry of Contractors (ROC) which is the primary licensing body for the building trades in the state. Now trades people here can operate without having an official ROC license number, but you hire that type of worker at your own risk. If you hire a trades professional that has an ROC license, then there is official recourse you can get access to if the job goes badly. Now, the ROC mostly acts as a body to "protect their own" BUT, when the problems are egregious enough, they will visit, inspect and attempt to reconcile the problem as best they can with the contractor in question.

What you can do depends A LOT on your local codes and laws with respect to licensed trades professionals. The best thing to do is to start with contacting the PB and getting him to come by and see what your concerns are and give him the opportunity to fix it. If he resists or refuses, then you need to decide if this is worth getting a lawyer involved. Lawyers can be expensive if you don't have any kind of legal insurance or access to legal counsel through work benefits (some folks I know have work benefits that include free legal services). However, I would only get a lawyer involved if the PB refuses to fix the mistakes.

On a separate but related issue - electrical bonding. You said that the pool is bonded with steel bar and copper wire and that's fine. However, in most areas, a pool deck would have to be bonded as well. That means that the deck would be concrete (doesn't matter if it's fiber reinforced or not) poured over rebar laid out in the decking area or steel mesh (looks like chicken wire fencing only with larger openings) and the copper wire from the pool would also be attached to the steel reinforcement in the deck. This way, the deck and pool are considered one "electrical body" as they are tied together. This is a electrical building code issue and so you'd have to see what the building code requires in your area. For many areas of the country, electrical bonding is an absolute must-have and a pool build would be halted by an inspector if the bonding was not properly done.
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

There is so much wrong here, I hardly know where to start. Any idea how long the concrete truck sat there waiting for them to show up? The hydration (curing) process begins as soon as water is added to the mix. The truck ticket will show the batch time, but you probably don't have a copy do you? From the time the mix is batched, you're running against the clock and increasing mix temperature. Once the mix temperature hits 90 degrees F, the concrete has begun to set and should be rejected. Do you know if they added water to the mix (retempering) on site and how much. Adding water alters the mix design's water/cement ratio and thereby its ultimate strength. The finish work is sloppy and not having joints of any kind raises some red flags immediately.

Your only bulletproof recourse at this time is to have a testing lab come out and pull some cores for testing. Sloppy finishing is a subjective grounds for complete removal, but if the cores show low compresssive strength, lack of air entrainment, or insufficient reinforcement this is something you can take to court. I'm sorry this happened to you but you have a poorly designed and executed slab that will inevitably need to be removed and replaced.
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

BigEinAZ said:
There is so much wrong here, I hardly know where to start. Any idea how long the concrete truck sat there waiting for them to show up? The hydration (curing) process begins as soon as water is added to the mix. The truck ticket will show the batch time, but you probably don't have a copy do you? From the time the mix is batched, you're running against the clock and increasing mix temperature. Once the mix temperature hits 90 degrees F, the concrete has begun to set and should be rejected. Do you know if they added water to the mix (retempering) on site and how much. Adding water alters the mix design's water/cement ratio and thereby its ultimate strength. The finish work is sloppy and not having joints of any kind raises some red flags immediately.

Your only bulletproof recourse at this time is to have a testing lab come out and pull some cores for testing. Sloppy finishing is a subjective grounds for complete removal, but if the cores show low compresssive strength, lack of air entrainment, or insufficient reinforcement this is something you can take to court. I'm sorry this happened to you but you have a poorly designed and executed slab that will inevitably need to be removed and replaced.
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I do believe the truck sat waiting for about 30-45 min. When the actual concrete guys got here to do the concrete they took off at break neck speed likely due to it already drying. I do not have a copy of the ticket as they likely gave it to the PB since they technically work for him and we do not even know the name of the concrete company they used. They had a small bucket of water that they used and they dipped their large broom brushes in our pool (which annoyed me to no end as there is now concrete in the bottom of the pool :/). Like you said there are no joints and I agree 100% if they knew it was hardening when they got here they should have rejected it. I know nothing about this type of stuff which is why I hired a PB that I thought would take the headache and stress off me having to do it :/ The concrete guys admitted that they were late, the concrete truck came too early, that they took the retardent out of the concrete mix as they thought it was a small job (they said someone messed up on how many ft they were actually doing and did not order enough concrete.) So overall they said it was a big mess of miscommunication, which in my opinion I should not have to settle with or pay for if not done correctly. The PB is a hard head so I am waiting to see how he deals with this. Do you know where I can find a testing lab for something like this? I would have no idea where to begin on that. Thank you for weighing in with your expertise, I appreciate it! :)
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

Cutting joints now will NOT fix all that is wrong with your concrete. It all started when the truck sat and went down hill from there. All the cut joints do is help keep the concrete from cracking where it wants to. The joints should be put where it might crack to keep things looking good IF they look good from the beginning. :(
 
Re: Nightmare pool install, need advice..

If the concrete guys already said "Yeah, we did x, y, and z wrong", then they should be the ones who fix it. If they are a sub contractor for the pb, then he has the power to say "do it right" or no more jobs from him. If pb and concrete company don't make it right, you may need to get a local company to give you a written statement as to what is wrong with the concrete to present in small claims court.
 

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