New to pools downunder please help

[fgin]

Hello everybody, HELP!!!!

As the title suggests I am very new to owning a pool. We moved into this house recently (about 3 months ago) which was built about 20 years ago.
The pool is a concrete kidney shaped pool with a spa. The pool at the deep-end is approx. 1.8m and at the shallow-end is approx. 1.1m. It is approx. 7.5m x 5m. The spa is a 2.5m diameter half circle with approx 1.3m deep. The PoolMath page suggests its 15850 gallons (60000L).

It has a SWG which is currently running about 2.5 hrs every night. The chlorine output is set to 5 of 8 bars on the Hurlcon controller and I haven't changed this since moving in.

Outside temp has been rising here in Melbourne, Australia as we're heading into spring and today had a maximum of 33C.

For the past month or so I have been using a 400micron solar pool cover to keep ducks doing their deed overnight and leaves and other debris from falling in. Saves me cleaning every morning which has been a god send.

Never tested the water, the pool has not been used until today. Right from the start the water has been as clean as it can be.

After some research I decided to get the TF-100 but they will not ship to Australia. Finally forked out double the $$ to get the Taylor 2006C and it arrived today.

So here is what I got:
(note: Tests conducted while the solar cover was on around 11am),
FC - 12 (60 drops of R0871 on a 25ml sample)CC - 0.2 (1 drop of R0871 on a 25ml sample)
PH - Darker than 8 but not purple. (It took 6 drops of R0005 to get PH down to 7.4)
TA - 120 (12 drops of R0009 on a 25ml sample)
CH - 210 (21 drops of R0012 on a 25ml sample)
CYA - less than 30 ? (Dot did not cloud at all)

Im not sure where to start ? I have taken the cover off this evening hoping FC will fall.

Any help will be greatly appreciated to get the water balanced before it does any damage to the pool.

THANKS HEAPS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome to TFP! Okay, so let's get you going okay:
#1 - You need to adjust your CYA right away. A SWG pool should have 70-80 ppm of CYA to protect your FC and take stress off of your SWG system. Use the "sock method" to soak granular stabilizer near a return jet. Re-check your CYA in about a week after its dissolved.
#2 - Use muriatic acid to lower your pH right away. Anything over 8 and you subject your pool and equipment to possible damage. Go for a target of 7.5
#3 - Once you get the CYA up to at least 70, you'll want to back-off of the SWG production as FC will be too high. Your ideal range should be an FC of around 5ppm

For all these items, always use the Poolmath calculator to determine how much of an item to add. If you have a question, let us know. Lastly, please add your pool info to your signature by going to the top of the TFP web page (just under the Pool School button) and select "SETTINGS". On the next page look to the left for a menu bar that says, “MY SETTINGS” and go to "EDIT SIGNATURE" to enter your pool and equipment info there. It will help us later.

We're happy to have you with us!

 

[Jezza]

Hi fgin,

Welcome to TFP! A couple of things to add to the good advice given previously but Ph doesn't ready accurately over FC of 10 but possibly assuming that your PH is a little high , you might want to add Muriatic Acid (in Australia we just call it Hydrochloric acid) available from Bunnings or Masters in smaller amounts at a time. While adding the stabiliser let the FC drop below 10 by turning down the SWG dial. I would probably suggest turning it right down and then retesting in 2 days time, then hopefully you can get a more accurate reading on the PH as FC will be <10. Also use the 10ml sample for testing FC and CC, which will save you a stack on the amount of the R-0871 reagent. The results from the 10ml test are accurate enough for TFP purposes. Let us know if you have any further questions.

 

[fgin]

Thanks folks for the invaluable advice. I have been "pool schooling" my self for the past few weeks in anticipation of the arrival of the test kit. In addition to reading the booklet that came with the taylor kit. Jezza, I noticed the Taylor booklet mention that FC >10 makes the PH test inaccurate. Also thanks for the tip to use the 1drop = .5 testing method to save the regents. I wanted to use the .2 for inaugural test to get an accurate read. What kit are you using ? I still need another test kit for measuring the salt levels. For some reason I thought the taylor K2006C included a salt test but it doesn't.

I'm going to follow Pool calc's numbers as it came up for me. I have assumed my PH is 8 as that's the highest in the taylor kit scale, even though my pool registered higher.




I'm planning on adding the following starting tomorrow morning:
1) Stabiliser (Isocyanuric Acid Granular) 2kg to start with using the sock method to be placed in the skimmer basket ( this one in particular http://www.bunnings.com.au/hy-clor-2kg-soft-pack-stabiliser_p3090208 ).
2) muriatic acid 500ml to start with ( I found some left in the shed by the previous owner which says 32%) to reduce PH
3) Add Hardness increaser 2kgs to start with (this one in particular http://www.clarkrubber.com.au/hardness-increaser.html)


I have a few worries:
1) I read that adding CYA will make the PH go down and TA go down with it. Which is what my goal is. Considering this do I still need to add the muratic acid to get the PH down or should I skip it and let the CYA do the job.
2) If I turn down the SWG would I be risking too much ? E.g. a sudden alge problem? How often should I test FC, CC, PH, CYA and CH while trying to balance ? I know CYA will need a week to register. But is it ok to turn off the SWG for a week while there is no CYA being registered at present ?

Again thanks so much for the information and the help. I never realized a pool had so much going on behind the scene.

I am yet to get the full grip of the plumbing near the pump/filter etc. That is for another thread since getting the water chemistry right is my most urgent priority.


Thank you everybody for all the help

 

[Divin Dave]

Hi fgin,
sounds like your doing the right things.

To answer your questions,
No. 1. Pool Math is working behind the scenes to take all of that into account. So, just add what pool math says, and you will be good.

No. 2. Yes, you can turn down teh SWG, or even turn it off for one day to get the FC down closer to where it should be. Test FC every day and see what is happening to your FC, and then when you can sort of determine a trend, make an adjustment to the SWG. Its a bit of a trial and error process for a couple of weeks. After you have added the CYA, consider it to be 70. Even though it isnt registering on the test, it's there.

Test pH daily for a couple of weeks, or so, and you will get a feel of how your pool behaves and how quicly the pH rises. Then you can adjust the pH test schedule to what you have a better feel for it.

TA buffers the rate of pH rise, so if you are getting a lot of pH rise and often add MA to control it, then you may need to test TA every 3 or 4 days to see what's happening. If your pH is fairly stable and doesnt rise quickly, then you can test TA less often.
However, since you are new at this. Testing TA every 2 days for the first couple of weeks is good practice, and again, you can a trend of how quickly it changes.

Test CH every couple of weeks is sufficient. Lots of folks only test it once a month
Once your CYA level is where you want it, then test it once a month also.

hope this helps,

 

[Jezza]

Ok Fgin- you've got a plan- good work. Don't worry about the CYA affecting PH and TA- it is insignificant and not worth worrying about. So yes adding that 2kg of stabiliser is a good plan and using Poolmath and assuming a CYA level of 30 it should take it up to around 60. You might be a bit lower because your initial reading is <30 but will give us a better picture. Stabiliser takes around a 1 week to register on the CYA test, so I would sit on that for another week and then retest to see what your actual reading is and then add the extra bit afterwards, assuming it is required. You don't want to add too much than recommended as it can be a pain in the butt to get rid of excess CYA- the only practical solution is to drain the pool- not fun and can get expensive when you have to top up the pool with tapwater. Much easier to add than to take away! Now to the PH- I would firstly concentrate on getting the FC below 10, turn the dial right down. Maybe it would be a good idea to retest the FC daily to get an idea of your daily FC loss. Think of all the practice you will also be getting. You shouldn't lose so much FC in a day that you have to worry about an algal bloom and with an FC of around 12 you have plenty of room to let it drop. Once you get a reading below 10 (this should only take a couple of days) then you can test for an accurate PH reading, then turn back on the SWG The HCL acid you buy in Bunnings should roughly bring your PH down by .1 for every 100mls. Don't worry about the CH, CC or TA too much at the moment- they can be adjusted when you get cya, FC and Ph in balance. Keep us informed!!

 

[fgin]

Thanks a lot for the speedy responses. You guys are great! Now I have a narrower point of attack. I will update soon on how the numbers change.

 

[Dibbler]

fgin,

one thing to consider, your pool FC will behave differently with/without the cover on. I am currently heating mine(heat pump) so have the cover on when not in use, once dec/jan gets here i'll probably leave it off until march, it'll pretty much stay at 26 by itself. SWG Level/Pump run time needs to be altered to compensate for each.

 

[fgin]

Thanks Dibbler, I've left the cover off overnight, I will check FC again to find out if there is any changes. I will pull the cover back on soon as I fear the ducks may return and I am not keen on cleaning leaves and other rubbish that gets blown in.

Anyway since the last post I have been to the shops. The CYA instructions says to mix into slurry in a bucket and pour directly into pool. It comes in a powdery form and not granular as advertised. OR should I still follow the 'sock method'?

 

[aussieta]

the stabilizer is best placed in an old sock and hung in front of a return (not touching side of pool)
adding calcium can cause cloudiness
never add more than 500 grams per day
the best way i have found is a floating chlorine dispenser, just fill with calcium and top up each day until you have added the calculated amount

 

[Jezza]

Yes use the sock method. You'll find that if you use the bucket method a lot will takes ages to dissolve in the pool. In front of a return is the best approach but you can stick it in the skimmer box as long as it is in a sock/s. Bunnings sell skimmer socks which are only a few bucks. IMO I wouldn't worry about the calcium at this stage.

 

[fgin]

Tested again this morning before adding anything

So here is what I got:
(note: Tests conducted after solar cover was left off for about 48hrs),
FC - 1 (2 drops of R0871 on a 10ml sample, FC has dropped from 12 tested 48hrs ago) As Dibbler suggested, I am attributing this huge change to the solar cover since nothing else has changed.
CC - 0
PH - Still Darker than 8 but not purple. (It took 3 drops instead of 6 last time of R0005 to get PH down to 7.4)
TA - 120 (12 drops of R0009 on a 25ml sample) - No change since tested 48 hrs ago
CH - 210 (21 drops of R0012 on a 25ml sample) - No change since tested 48 hrs ago
CYA - less than 30 ? (Dot did not cloud at all) - No change since tested 48 hrs ago

I have gone with the sock(s) method as suggested by Jezza and aussieta, thanks guys. It is going well so far. Pump is on and will keep it on for the next 24 hrs

Added 2kg of CYA
500ml of MA

I might add 500g of the Calcium Chloride (CH) in a little while.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[pabeader]

Give the sock a squeeze every once and a while. No real need to test for CYA until next week. It's going to take that long to really register.

pH that's high can take a few applications to get down. The test can only read so high, therefore you could be much over 8 and not really know what it is until you start trying to lower it.

 

[aussieta]

you need to get some chlorine in there quick
and after a couple of hours if adding liquid or powder chlorine add some more muriatic (hydrochloric) acid
ps roughly where in melbourne are you

 

[fgin]

I've added 500g of the Calcium Chloride which made no difference to how the water looks, I am tempted to add another 500g today.

As for the low FC, I have increased the SWG to 6 (max is 8). Since the filtration pump is running and will keep running till tomorrow I am guessing that should be enough? I will test the FC again later this evening when the sun goes down just to make sure.

the calc said to add a max of 758ml of MA (see post above with screen shot of calc). Should I wait till I test my PH and TA before adding more MA or should I go ahead and add the remaining 258ml of the 758ml total ?

 

[aussieta]

calcium chloride does not affect look or feel of the water it is to prevent your pool dissolving the cement
add the ma now 258 ml wont be enough though
ma will lower ph and ta
both of which are high in your pool

 

[Jezza]

Yeah add the MA and then worth seeing if your in the 7's. . Assuming your not then you'll need to keep adding more until you are. I'd probably crank the SWG to max with your low FC reading. That certainly took a dive. Hopefully with the addition of the CYA, the effect of the sun will reduce the amount being lost to sunlight now. Maybe worth having some liquid chlorine handy to add if you need to quickly crank up the FC. The SWG adds chlorine relatively slowly

 

[aussieta]

i keep cal/hypo on standby for sudden needs
with our water we constantly need calcium as well

 

[fgin]

Thanks aussieta, what I meant was that adding Calcium Chloride didn't cloud the water. I assumed that more than 500g would cloud the water which (I thought) is why you said never to add more than 500g a day.

Jezza im going to test the FC in a few hours. If its still low I will crank up the SWG to max. I will probably go get some Cal/hypo for standby needs which makes good sense.
I will test PH too when I do the FC and add the MA at the same time. By the way, how long should I wait before I can test for PH and TA after adding the MA ?

 

[fgin]

I just remembered that I need to do the testing in natural light. So went ahead and did it:

FC - 3ppm (6 drops of R0871 on a 10ml sample) I will leave the SWG in the current setting which is 6 bars.
PH - 7.4 (has dropped from above 8 this morning which was about 8 hrs since last tested and 500ml MA added)
TA - 120 (same as this morning)

- CYA socks are almost empty.