New Pool Owner in Mesa, AZ

[rustyandbonnie]

Here is a link to the photos of our pool, equipment, and the water: Pool by rustyandbonnie | Photobucket

our water had been a clear green color and we were told by the store clerk to buy a pool Rx and it would clear up the algae. It did clear it up, but about a week later we saw a bunch of black algae on the wall on one side of the pool which turned greenish when brushing it off. That's when we started the thread on here and were advised to start the Slam process. The water was crystal clear when we started the SLAM and has remained that way.

Do you want us to run a new set of tests or are you looking for our previous numbers?

 

[Crackerjack4u]

Hi Bonnie, I'm sure Leebo is wanting you guys to run a full new set of levels. Remember the pH will read high with the FC higher than 10ppm.

You guys are in great hands with the Experts around here because there isn't much of anything they've not ran across, or don't know about pool care, so hopefully they can figure out what is still causing you fine folks all this trouble, and help you get it eliminated. Have a wonderful night.

 

[rustyandbonnie]

Forgot to post our numbers in the last post.

6:15 pm FC 20, stayed the same in the last 5 hours.

We will run a new set of tests on everything in the morning.

10:45 pm FC 20, stayed the same in the last 4.5 hours, CC 1
Looking better. Keeping fingers crossed for good overnight numbers.

 

[rustyandbonnie]

Yesterday morning results showed we lost 5ppm chlorine overnight. After bumping it up to 23 the next test was done 5.25 hours later and we lost 3ppm to bring it down to 20. We didn't add any more chlorine since it held at 20 the rest of the day, so when we went to bed at 11pm the pool was left at 20.

8:30 am test results -

FC 16 - down 4 overnight
CC 1.5 - up .5 overnight
TC 17.5
CH 575 (originally turned pink not red; at 21 drops it looked purple; at 23 drops started looking more blue so used that)
TA 130 (At 10 drops it looked pink, continued to add and at 13 started to look more like red so we used that number)
CYA 50
pH 7.7

 

[azjoshers79]

I'm definitely not an expert, my previous home had a pool that I maintained for 6 years. We are getting ready to build a pool at our new home. But at the old place I lost control one year when we had a lot of rain over the winter, combined with an argentine mesquite that dropped an excessive amount of leaves in pool. I could not keep chlorine in the pool and algae was going nuts! So I just drained the pool and started over. Algae gone and water balanced. Good to go. Did you drain and start over??? I'm also in Mesa, AZ so I know the weather etc.


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[rustyandbonnie]

Glad to have someone else from AZ here! If you or Gene are ever in the neighborhood of Signal Butte and Southern and want to stop by to take a look at our pool to see if you can find anything we are missing, then by all means, come on by. Rusty has checked everything he sees for hidden algae, but hasn't been finding anything obvious. No idea why this SLAM is dragging on.

We have not drained the pool, but the way this is going, that might end up being the only alternative. Were you using TFP method when maintaining that pool for six years?

 

[azjoshers79]

Glad to have someone else from AZ here! If you or Gene are ever in the neighborhood of Signal Butte and Southern and want to stop by to take a look at our pool to see if you can find anything we are missing, then by all means, come on by. Rusty has checked everything he sees for hidden algae, but hasn't been finding anything obvious. No idea why this SLAM is dragging on.

We have not drained the pool, but the way this is going, that might end up being the only alternative. Were you using TFP method when maintaining that pool for six years?

Seems like it may be time to drain, and start over. I am new to this site so I did not know about the TFP when I was maintaining my old pool. For the most part I had no problems except for the issue I described above. And once I drained, everything was fine. I was even using the "evil" tablets to chlorinate.


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[Leebo]

The only times TFP suggests a member drains/refills is if the water is high in CYA, CH, or metals. As of right now none of that appears to be the case. I too am somewhat stumped as what is causing this and am reviewing this thread to see why this is occurring. It's something simple I'm sure that we are missing.

 

[rustyandbonnie]

12:45 pm FC 18.5, down 1.7 in 4 hours 15 minutes.

We sure hope someone can figure this out. Rusty does every test the same way so we don't think it would be a test error on his part. We don't see anything anywhere in the pool that looks like algae. We seldom get anything in the pool and the strainer seldom catches anything, just a leaf or two here and there when it gets windy.

We had a 1.7 drop between the first two tests today. Besides adding chlorine to bump it up to 20.2 (odd number because he had exactly 2 quarts left in the open jug) after the first reading, the only thing he has done is brush it down again. The pool continues to be crystal clear.

 

[azjoshers79]

The only times TFP suggests a member drains/refills is if the water is high in CYA, CH, or metals. As of right now none of that appears to be the case. I too am somewhat stumped as what is causing this and am reviewing this thread to see why this is occurring. It's something simple I'm sure that we are missing.

Sounds good to me. I was just stating what worked for me in the past and it seems like the owner is putting a lot of money into testing supplies and chemicals and not enjoying their pool.


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[Leebo]

Can you please explain to me how he's doing the fas/dpd chlorine test? Explain the steps he is doing.

FAS/DPD Chlorine test for the TF-100 - YouTube

Here is also a very short YouTube video of this test. Does this match how he's doing this test. Whenever I see odd "unexplainable" test results like the ones you are posting I always try to first rule out inaccurate results. Start simple then move onto other items to help address the issues. Your water LOOKS amazing which is a good sign. Now let's just nail down these chlorine levels.

 

[proavia]

One inconsistency I do see in today's chlorine tests - you seem to be switching between 10ml and 25ml tests. 10ml tests will result in either whole number (20, 21, etc) or half number (20.5, 21.5, etc) readings. 25ml tests will result in whole number (20, 21, etc) or two-tenths (20.2, 20.4, etc) readings.

In post #249, you stated a loss of 1.7 between the first two tests today. That is an impossible loss result to attain - without changing test quantities between 10ml and 25ml. And if this has been occurring randomly throughout your SLAM, it may easily have confused some of your readings.

Please choose only one quantity size, unless someone recommends changing it. And then, be sure to always post the sample size so we are all on the same page.

Have you been keeping a detailed log of your reading since starting your SLAM?

 

[rustyandbonnie]

The odd number of 1.7 came up because he added an odd amount of chlorine (like over or under an ounce or two of a quart) which using pool math brought the level up to an odd amount. I hope that makes sense to you. We have always used a sample of 10ml.

I started writing down our test results on 9/7.

I'm going to check out the you tube link on the testing with Rusty and will get back to you in a little while on that.

 

[rustyandbonnie]

We just looked at the video. Rusty gets the sample in exactly the same way. When adding and counting the drops Rusty uses more of a swirling motion instead of shaking back and forth. He also puts in a drop swirls, stops swirling, adds another drop, swirls, etc. He doesn't usually swirl continuously. When the water turns clear it never looks completely clear. It is cloudy clear. We asked about that I think after our first test and they said as long as it's not still pink that's okay if cloudy. We tried adding more drops when it turned cloudy the first time we tested but it didn't clear up.

 

[proavia]

Hi Bonnie

First let me apologize in advance if anything I say comes across as gruff or blunt - just looking to help you guys get through this SLAM.

So, the 20.2 listed in post #249 is an estimate based on "Effects of adding chemicals" on the PoolMath page - and not an actual test result? If so, without the additional test 30 minutes after the add, there is no way to know for sure the exact level after the add. This will also affect the loss recorded on your subsequent test.

20.2 - estimate from PoolMath after add (was @ 16, added 2 quarts of 10%?)
18.5 - subsequent drop test
01.7 - loss reported

If I recall, your pool quantity is a reasonible estimate (as you have no paperwork on the pool or have not drained/refilled) - as such, it could be off by +/- several hundred gallons. If using an estimated chlorine level (without a definitive drop test), along with an estimated pool quantity, this could lead to some margin of testing error.

Along with Leebo's request for you to list the exact steps you are using for the FC test, maybe including the exact steps you are taking for the CC test could help in nailing down the testing methods.

 

[Leebo]

the water turns clear it never looks completely clear. It is cloudy clear. We asked about that I think after our first test and they said as long as it's not still pink that's okay if cloudy. We tried adding more drops when it turned cloudy the first time we tested but it didn't clear up.

Thank you for recapping this! I clearly missed this in your posts. So you add drops until all the pink is gone but it never turns 100% "clear." It's always "cloudy" and you continue to add drops. Is this correct or do you now stop adding drops when all the pink is gone??

The reason I ask is there are a few rare occurrences where the water appears "cloudy" during this test as explained in the Extended Test Kit Directions,

In rare cases the sample may turn cloudy. If this happens the test is still valid. You add drops until the sample turns cloudy white, i.e. the red/pink is completely gone, rather than waiting for it to turn clear.

As for the swirling motion.......I too understand the pain in swirling continuously but it is needed. A HUGE help is the Speedstir for all the tests. Takes most the work out of testing and makes life SO much more enjoyable.

 

[Swampwoman]

Hi there. I'm sorry your first season of pool ownership has been such a pita
I have a few additional questions for clarification purposes and suggestions that might help based on your test report this a.m.:

1. Last night, did you measure 20 ppm via 10 mil test at 11 pm (dark) (Please confirm test and time)
2. This morning at 8:30 a.m. It was presumably light, correct? fC was 16 based on test using 10 mil, right?

- just so you know for future, overnight chlorine loss test is most meaningful performed after sundown, then again BEFORE sunrise But in this case I don't think you were meaning to perform the OCLT, right? Just giving a baseline report?

3. Can you confirm that you reports of FC lost are based on physical tests after additions as opposed to calculated values of additions? If not, try that for a few tests so we can confirm your true chlorine demand without the added variable of chlorine freshness and pool gallonage

4. If you have your daily recordings, and said recordings are of performed tests, not calculated predictive additions, it might help give us all some understanding to translate that into "percentage of loss" for each day to see if there's some kind of pattern.

What I mean is while losing 3 ppm "sounds" like a lot in 5 hours, it was really only a 15% drop -- it SOUNDS like more because of your higher slam value due to having higher cya. But to my mind, a 15% drop is entirely normal during sunlight hours. The higher the shock value, the greater the loss in ppms.

5. It might be helpful if you were able to list the specific product names of anything you've put into your water this season. That is because some products contain things that skew tests or increase chlorine demand by fighting it...or add other things.

For example, PoolRx contains copper sulphate, so I don't believe the pool store's copper test was accurate, because you did report putting in PoolRx. This means at some point previously (not now, as its cear) your clear "green" water might have been exacerbated by oxidized copper if the ph got high. Not relevant to what you're experiencing right now, but an example of how the "formulas" of some commercial products can have unintended consequences or fight each other

Another example that comes to mind when hearing strange FC/CC reports is MPS shock, or "non chlorine" shock that pool stores like to peddle because its pricey. Products with MPS in them cause falsely high CC readings sometimes.

So if you have a list of products used, I'd be happy to look up the Material safety Data sheets that spell out what's in them to see if there are any clues.

It sounds like you haven't seen any visible evidence of algae -- dead or alive -- since your few dark spots in early September. It does make me wonder if your chemistry is a bit skewed by OTHER chemistry...like competing formulations, pesticide overspray, etc. etc.

Did you hav trouble maintaining FC between 5-7 daily before the outbreak?

 

[rustyandbonnie]

Gene - Yes, it is an estimate from pool math on what the level will be when we add "x" amount. Throughout this process we've only done a 30 minute retest after an add a handful of times, when told to do it. I'm pretty sure every time we retested, our level was exactly where pool math said it would be. We were told we didn't need to retest all of the time, at least not until the numbers looked close to being able to pass OCLT, and to help save on reagents. Rusty used to eyeball the adds and when we retested back then it a always came up accurate. We finally bought a Rubbermaid container with cup markings up to 2 quarts and again retests have come up accurate. I now know that can change from things such as weak chlorine and pool water level being down or up. So far we've used 7+ ounces of drops and we're on our second jar of powder. Yes, the 12,000 gallons is an estimate especially since we have a free form pool. Don't worry about being blunt or anything. You haven't been and I know you are trying to help us through this. We appreciate it.

Leebo - Yes it only turns cloudy white every time. We stop adding drops as soon as the.pink is gone and record the results. We only added more drops the first time we tested to see if it would clear up. Then we asked about that issue on this forum.
Rusty will start swirling continuously. He asked, should I swirl or shake back and forth like in the video, or does the actual motion make a difference?

Swamp woman - 1. 9/29/15 10:45 pm FC 20 per 10 ml test - dark - did not add any chlorine after testing
2. 9/30/15 8:30 am FC 16 per 10 ml test - Sunny, not going for OCLT.
3. FC lost were per pool math calculated values after adds, did not do a 30 minute retest after the adds. On a few occasions (like last night) we didn't add any chlorine so the loss was accurate per 10 ml tests. We will start retesting after all adds. Guess we better order more reagents again.
4. We started keeping a list of the levels about 5 days after starting the SLAM, but as stated above, we were only asked to retest after adds a few times and I didn't write those down since the levels were as expected. I'll try to keep better records from now on!
5. We used everything that Leslies and later NPS told us to use. I think we were in our home for a couple of months before we first saw a problem, probably in May. One day, the pool tuned a clear green. Leslies had us adding something different every time we went in. We didn't keep containers, but here's what we can remember: We had tablets in a floater at all times. We were told to use powdered shock over and over again. They said it had to be shocked with 2 pounds every week. Then they kept blaming the phosphates. We put in Pool Perfect Phos Free which lowered it from 500 to 200. We've used ChlorBrite, HTH Shock, sone brand if shock from Home Depot and Chlorine from there, a Chlorox brand of shock, HTH Super Concentrated Clarifier, HTH Shock and Swim, something we think was called Green to Clean, PH down, Borax, Muriatic Acid, and algaecide. The only thing that ever got rid of the green color and cleared it up was algaecide but a week or two later it always turned green again. Then nps sold us Pool Rx. We put that in tge skimmer and within a week our water was crystal clear. About a week later we saw the black on the wall. With the pool Rx in the pool we were finally using less chlorine for the first time since moving here. I remember Rusty saying he was only putting a few cups, maybe a quart, of chlorine a day and the basic test always read about FC 5. Before the pool Rx he was putting in about a gallon a day and every time he tested which was once in the morning and once at night, the readings were coming up as 0 almost every time. We found TFP when the black on the walls showed up.

We have not been in our pool at all since we started the SLAM.

Today 6:30 PM FC 18
we will test again before going to bed and make sure we know the correct level so the morning test will be accurate.

 

[proavia]

Thanks Bonnie

I'm going to hop in the back seat now. You have two of the best here in Leebo and Swampwoman to help you out. I'm sure they will help you finish up this SLAM in short order.

Will catch up with you soon!

 

[Crackerjack4u]

Hello Bonnie, just letting you know I too am sitting in the background monitoring your progress with the Experts as well, and continuing to cheer you, and Rusty on. . I'm wishing you guys all the luck in the world on getting your issue resolved, so you can enjoy your pool, and be able to easily keep it maintained. It's been a pleasure getting to know you during this process, and I'll be checking back in daily to see how things are progressing. You guys have a wonderful night, and keep up the great job .