New Pool in Orlando

[SchubeyDew]

Your thought process is good to weigh pros & cons of each. What works for someone in TX is different for you in FL because of soil conditions. It is best you try to determine what your neighbors have done and their results. Maybe you already did that. Go with your gut feeling and what looks good now and gives you peace of mind. Pools, lawns, decks - all require maintenance so just decide which type of deck you like and go with it. If it is done right, the pavers may not settle as much as you think or the concrete may not crack. So focus on how to ensure it is done right once you pick what you like.

I appreciate your thoughts. We are definitely leaning towards pavers at the moment because we really love the look. I don’t think any of the neighbors have done regular concrete either. On another note, I revised my design a little bit, to incorporate some semicircular benches as swim outs and wedding cake steps. I sent the revised design to the one PB I have a quote from and he is going to update it for me. Still no other quotes but I have two more meetings scheduled for next week. And, when one of my neighbors mentioned to one of the PB’s that another PB offered us a 5% discount if all three of us build with them, the other PB said they could probably do better than that! So things are moving along, but I’m eager to get some more quotes and see how much my adjustments will cost.
For some of the more experienced on here, some PB are using NPT mini pebble and some are using Wet Edge. Is one significantly better than the other? Also, for a spa, is one jet per “seat” a good number?
Here is my revised design:View attachment 174862View attachment 174862View attachment 174862View attachment 174862

 

[Nikilyn]

We did 12 jets total. Four are single jets and the other double. Two of those are side by side and the other up and down.

 

[OrlandoBull]

Depends on what you want from the spa... if you're trying to duplicate a stand alone spa, the more the better. We just like the heat and a little bit of jet action. Our last pool had 5 jets and it was fine for us, we mostly sat between the jets and just slid in front of them when we wanted the massage from it.

I would keep the steps square with the spa personally, that crevice between the bottom step and the spa won't be easy to keep clean and it's not really useable space in the pool. You could put an arc on them if you want to add some curvature to it to match the other end.

For the interior finish, others are probably more knowledgeable than me, but... I would say the product is very similar, Wet Edge I believe can only be done by qualified installers, so there is an argument that the install may be better and therefore the product will be better, but I don't think corporate reps come out and supervise or anything, probably a fee paid yearly for the "qualification" and away they go. It really all comes down to the install for any of these products. Others can weigh in, but that is my take. I don't think there is a huge advantage to one over the other as long as the installer does a good job with it.

 

[HermanTX]

For some of the more experienced on here, some PB are using NPT mini pebble and some are using Wet Edge. Is one significantly better than the other?

Most PB use subcontractors for plaster application. Some PB have a sub company under their name that is the plaster company. Not all plaster subcontractors are "authorized applicators" of all plaster types. So one PB may use only certain subcontractor which is authorized for Wet Edge for example. Once you decide on your PB or debating between the best 2, ask them who the plaster subcontractor is and go to the website of the plaster mfg. and search if they are an "authorized applicator". Most likely they are if the PB is on the up and up but this ensures your plaster warranty is certified properly.

 

[SchubeyDew]

We did 12 jets total. Four are single jets and the other double. Two of those are side by side and the other up and down.

I’m not sure how to picture what you’re trying to explain here. You don’t have a picture, do you? Also, how big is you spa and what shape is it?

Depends on what you want from the spa... if you're trying to duplicate a stand alone spa, the more the better. We just like the heat and a little bit of jet action. Our last pool had 5 jets and it was fine for us, we mostly sat between the jets and just slid in front of them when we wanted the massage from it.

I would keep the steps square with the spa personally, that crevice between the bottom step and the spa won't be easy to keep clean and it's not really useable space in the pool. You could put an arc on them if you want to add some curvature to it to match the other end.

For the interior finish, others are probably more knowledgeable than me, but... I would say the product is very similar, Wet Edge I believe can only be done by qualified installers, so there is an argument that the install may be better and therefore the product will be better, but I don't think corporate reps come out and supervise or anything, probably a fee paid yearly for the "qualification" and away they go. It really all comes down to the install for any of these products. Others can weigh in, but that is my take. I don't think there is a huge advantage to one over the other as long as the installer does a good job with it.

I’m not sure if you can really duplicate a stand alone hot tub. I had one in the past and there are about a million jets. They are very nice from a massaging aspect but break all the time, which is why I am going this route. That and it will look a lot better. I was thinking if I placed the jets about 2’ apart people could sit in between, like you mentioned, but everyone could have a jet, if they wanted one. Then again, my wife and I aren’t big people. Maybe every 2.5’ or 3’ would be better.
I do see your point about the steps. I hadn’t thought about it from a cleaning aspect, but that would be a pain. Hopefully one of the PB will have something that can help me match the other corners without that odd little gap.
What you say about the finish makes sense too. Like so many things, the quality of the install seems to be a big determining factor in so many things. I honestly haven’t heard of anyone having problems with pebble finish as long as they get the first 30 days right.

 

[Nikilyn]

From L-R clockwise- single, single, double side by side, double up and down, single, single, double up and down, double side by side, single.

 

[SchubeyDew]

From L-R clockwise- single, single, double side by side, double up and down, single, single, double up and down, double side by side, single. View attachment 174878

Thank you for the picture. I really like the side by side jets. I may have to incorporate some of those.

 

[SchubeyDew]

I received my second quote today and it was a fair amount higher than the first, but it also reflects my more recent representation that I drew above. I was supposed to get the revised quote from PB1 (my first quote) today but they didn’t meet that deadline. Other than the price difference, I noticed PB2 included four LED lights plus the spa. PB1 only included one. Also of note, PB2 added the micro dig as an option, instead of including it in the price. PB2 uses Wet Edge and PB1 uses “Custom mix,” and both use Jandy equipment. There are multiple other items that I requested PB1 to change, but rather than type them out, I will just post the updated quote when it comes in. Below is the quote with renderings of the new design.

 

[SchubeyDew]

A few other note as my education, or lack thereof, progresses. I met with another PB yesterday. We shall refer to this PB as PB3. PB3 presented an option that none of the other PB’s had suggested. In order to avoid a $3000 cost for a micro dig, he suggested we use an AC guy he works with to remove my AC unit for the dig and then reinstall. He said this can be done for $600, as opposed to the $3000 that is typically charged and only one of the three of us (neighbors) would need to have it done to access our yards. As long as there isn’t some kind of waiver involved this seems like a solid option. I have also spoken to a resident in my community that used this PB and they used this option with no issues. PB3 uses Pentair equipment (everyone else I’ve talked to uses Jandy) and when I got into specifics about automation (thank you TFP for all the info on Pentair automation systems!), he really seemed to know his stuff. He mentioned that with nine jets for my spa I would need a separate pump and that when we did that he would upgrade the automation to the IntelliCenter, which seems like a good system, from what I’ve read on here. I asked PB3 if they use blowers for their spas and he said they do. From what I have read on here, it sounds like blowers are considered a crutch and not necessary if the PB designs the hydraulic system correctly. I’ve had a stand alone spa before and the air bubbles were nice. Isn’t the point of a blower to supply air for the air bubbles? It seems like maybe I’m missing something here. Another PB said there is no need for a blower and he doesn’t recommend it.
PB3 is also willing to work a deal if myself and my two neighbors decide to use them and PB3 has a very good reputation in the area. I should have a quote by the end of the week from PB3 and will post it when I get it.

 

[HermanTX]

The overall design by PB2 is nice, however, and, in my opinion, the 2 arcs in the deep end seem to take up a lot of "pool" space. You have this allocated space being used by cement where that could be water with a small bench if it was a square corner rather than an inward arc. Aesthetically, the design is great, but with the cost everyone is paying for pools today, it seems one should maximize the actual pool volume if you can. It appears PB1 layout tried to maximize pool volume. This is in my humble opinion only so you can take that with a grain of salt.

 

[SchubeyDew]

The overall design by PB2 is nice, however, and, in my opinion, the 2 arcs in the deep end seem to take up a lot of "pool" space. You have this allocated space being used by cement where that could be water with a small bench if it was a square corner rather than an inward arc. Aesthetically, the design is great, but with the cost everyone is paying for pools today, it seems one should maximize the actual pool volume if you can. It appears PB1 layout tried to maximize pool volume. This is in my humble opinion only so you can take that with a grain of salt.

I get what you are saying and I agree. I really like the design but it takes up too much of the pool, especially with the pool only being 30’ long and the spa taking up space on the other side. That drawing was using a 5’ radius. I am going to see about making it about half that size. But! I got another quote today and it was much better than the last. Enough better that I am considering adding another 4’ to the back of the pool. Below is my latest quote. We can refer to this PB as PB4.

 

[SchubeyDew]

So far, PB4 has the design I like the most. I think the regular steps are the way to go with this design, as opposed to the wedding cake. I like how he shifted the deck area slightly as well. I think the left side and back area are usable space now.
A few notes on the quote itself. He did leave out the pebble finish and the footer for the screen, so I need to follow up about that. He also only charges $1000 for the micro dig, which is the best option I have seen short of the $600 AC unit removal option, which is more complicated. He does include three lights for the pool, which are listed as Jandy Nicheless lights. I’ll search on here for them and see what the general opinion is. More jets will need to be added to the spa and according to the quote notes, that means they will add a blower. PB3’s solution to more jets was a second pump and a blower. I’ll have to ask PB4 about the extra jets and what their approach is. Aqualink RS4 is included and I think I’ll ask to upgrade that to the RS8 for future upgrades. He also included a raised sheer waterfall (24”), which would go between two Pentair Magic Bowls. PB2 wanted an extra $4700 to add a pair of the bowls to my quote. Also, PB2 reached out to me today and said he made a $2k error and that the price would actually be $77k. By the time you add the $4700 Magic bowls, this brings his price $82k. Or, if you add in the footer to PB4’s quote, $71k plus whatever the Wet Edge would cost. PB2 and PB4 both use Wet Edge. If you guys can’t tell, I’m much more excited about this quote than the last!

 

[Callalilly41]

I kinda agree with Herman, I think if you were to keep the rectangular design and do a long bench/ or two L shaped benches, instead of the arch benches you would have a more streamlined look and more pool space. And of course my opinion, but I think cake steps are a little outdated especially in a rectangular pool and don’t work as well as the linear steps you had in the first drawing, there is a strange small gap between the cake steps and the spa. But as Herman said, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Edit* didn’t see the post were you said you wanted the linear steps instead of the cake steps! My bad lol the raised magic bowls do look awesome! Looking good!

 

[Nikilyn]

Our plumber told us that 6 is the optimum number of jets for a pump but can go up to 8. We have 13 so we have 2 pumps and 1 blower. I asked on here about blowers and was told they make the bubbles. Some people prefer their spa without it.

 

[HermanTX]

So far, PB4 has the design I like the most. I think the regular steps are the way to go with this design, as opposed to the wedding cake. I like how he shifted the deck area slightly as well. I think the left side and back area are usable space now.

This looks great. One other option, we are only seeing the drawing, not the full yard, etc, but did you consider to flip flop the spa/steps to the left and deep on right? It shows you have a bar on the left patio. If you have the steps closest to the bar and the spa next to it then you have all the people interaction on one side which may be convenient. Obviously, you have a view of the entire set up but just thought I put that option to you. Definitely like the regular steps that goes from side to spa.

He does include three lights for the pool, which are listed as Jandy Nicheless lights. I’ll search on here for them and see what the general opinion is.

In general, LED lights tend to have poor performance from what I have read. However, it is the newest technology so suspect some learning curve to make them better. I know several family members with Jandy lights and they are happy. Jandy makes a wide range of nicheless lights - some color some not, so just decide what you want. Go to the Jandy website to see the design guidance and the various types they offer

Aqualink RS4 is included and I think I’ll ask to upgrade that to the RS8 for future upgrades.

Good idea. Best if you write out what you want to control. If you have multiple lights then do you want to control them independently or as 1 unit. Do you want to control the bubbler separately? Do you want to control your Magic Bowls in either Spa mode or Pool mode or both? All of these desires trigger use of relays needed in the automation or also how plumbing and automatic valves are set up. Just be good to think through that.

Wet Edge would cost. PB2 and PB4 both use Wet Edge.

Go on the Wet Edge Technologies website and ensure the PB (2 or 4) is listed as a authorized installer. This is important for your warranty as well as that they follow the right process. I have Wet Edge Primera Stone and really enjoy it.

 

[SchubeyDew]

So a lot has transpired since my last post, but I’ll start by responding to everyone’s input. I really do like the look of the quarter round cutouts and I feel like shrinking them will give me the look I want without taking up too much space. As for flipping the shallow and deep ends to consolidate the hangout area, I was actually trying to achieve the opposite. When I have had parties in the past, there always seem to be several different hangout areas and it seems to work out well as I have an eclectic group of friends. The other part of that equation is that I need the spa to be on that side for a clearer view of the Disney fireworks. My neighbor's house goes further back than mine, so much so that the back of my pool will be about even with the back of his house, so having the spa in the back corner will give me the best vantage point to see over/around his house when the Magic Kingdom fireworks go off. I looked at the design guidance on Jandy's website and it looks like three or four lights will be optimal for me. Jandy offers two different colored nicheless LED lights and from a practical standpoint it looks like either will work for what I want. I did reach out to Wet Edge and they gave me the names of the licensed installers. Neither of my PB's are on their list, but Wet Edge said they wouldn't be because it would be the subcontractor that would be the licensed installer. When I get closer to picking a PB, I will make sure they are using one of the companies that Wet Edge said are licensed in my area.
The automation and the spa thing has turned into a whole debacle. I had one PB price me an extra $8000 or so with the way he priced the automation and pumps. When I got into details with him, it turned out he had made some unnecessary upgrades at my expense. The thread for that discussion is titled "Intellicenter Pricing." One that I did learn through the process is that I need two separate pumps if I want to run the water features and the spa at the same time. PB2 Has already included this in his price and I have requested that PB4 add that to the quote. Both systems would use Jandy automation with two pumps and a blower. One other thing that came up was whether the feature pump needed to be a variable speed or if a single speed pump would do the job. Ill have to look into that on here.
I have a total of about five or six quotes now and I wont post all of them because Im not really considering most of them. At this point, PB2 and PB4 are the top contenders and I just need a few adjustments to be made before I make my decision. Both use Wet Edge and both price Caribbean the same way. If the pricing comes out the way I think it will, I may bump the pool out another four feet back with PB4, but I don't want to get to excited about that before getting the updated quote.

 

[Nikilyn]

You get to watch WDW fireworks from your backyard ?!?!

 

[SchubeyDew]

You get to watch WDW fireworks from your backyard ?!?!

Well, they haven’t done them since COVID started, but when the house was being built we went up to the balcony and could see them

 

[FLGatorJoe]

Great design kinda similar to ours but we have 3 deck jets instead of the sheer decent which was 1/3 of the price and we angled our spa on a 45 degree angle so it is a clear view of the spill-over from our sliders.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Finally got my updated quote from PB4. Apparently he promptly updated the quote and it ended up in his draft folder instead of being sent, hence the delay. After seeing the quote, I’ve decided to go with PB4. They’ve built pools for several of our friends and the price is the best, by far. When I decide on all my options, I will post the final quote. Right now the things I am considering are:

- Do I shrink the spa from 6’ x 8’ to 5’ x 7’ ?
-Do I make the pool 20x30 instead of 16x30?
-Do I upgrade from the iAqualink RS4 to RS8?

I may save a little money by going to a 5x7 spa, so that’s one consideration. Another is that it would be one additional foot of pool space.

Bumping up the size of the pool is probably possible with this builder but I need to run some final numbers to make sure it’s in the budget. I also stake it out in the backyard so I can see what it will look like visually.

I was considering upgrading the Jandy iAqualink system from the four output RS4 to the eight output RS8 so I would have room for future expansion. The builder wants an additional $1000 for this option, which doesn’t seem like a bad price considering some of my other quotes. I am currently leaning away from this option as I don’t really know what additional controls I might add in the future. The other thing is, from what I’ve been reading on TFP, it seems like Pentair is the preferred brand over Jandy due to the ability to service in a DIY fashion. That being the case, if my Jandy equipment breaks, I might just rip it out and put in a Pentair system down the road. If that’s the plan then it doesn’t make sense to spend extra money on a system I may rip out later. My last thought here is that if I don’t have any issues with the Jandy equipment (no one here seems to think the equipment isn’t good quality), then why mess with it. I know, I’m all over the place with this.

As per usual, any insights you guys may have are welcome.