New Pool in MA coming Soon

[mpkelley20]

I'm about 20 miles south of Boston in east Bridgewater.

Even with waiting, my land was constantly settling so I'm expecting the deck to crack. Everyone around my area I've talked to said there is no getting around it due to how wet it gets. Even my father who is in Quincy has dealt with it for 30 years.

This whole process has been one of the more stressful things I've done since building my house. Really. A lot of it was the route I took with retaining walls and such but just having stuff out of order was tough to take after spending 10 years trying to get my grass perfect. Lol!!!

Good luck with your build. Look forward to seeing it progress

 

[Carnut12]

Thank you, I am taking some time doing my homework. I plan to get 3-4 bids in detail. I am in no rush and I have heard in the fall you get end of season discounts. Time will tell, yours looks like it is coming out great!!

 

[mpkelley20]

Discounts in MA aren't generally great. I got 5 bids and only two offered discounts. One offered a "free" swim out which normally cost $2500 and another offered lower price on decking (I was able to do better on my own). The issue I had was each builder did a different style. One did old fashioned poured concrete walls, another used "permacrete". Another did polymer and then two did steel. The two steel guys were night and day different with one not installing any main drains and using that piping that gets eaten by bugs!

So I tried my best to negotiate but I found the best way to save money is to find your own people for things that could be included in the package price. Decking, diving boards, things like that.

Maybe where you are the pool builders all do the same styles which give you more room to work. Unfortunately, my area was like a social media site where every pool builder knows everything about the other so pricing was not really a deciding factor (well, the permacrete pool was way high!!)

I was hoping my fence would be done by today but more rain here so not happening until next week. I did order 8 yards of topsoil to start landscaping (doing this myself!). Hopefully get that down this weekend if it stops raining

On another note, I had a "major" issue with my deck. Who wants to take a guess what went wrong. Here is a hint. [attachment=1:et8nfte8]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370606233.372906.jpg[/attachment:et8nfte8][attachment=0:et8nfte8]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370606253.542682.jpg[/attachment:et8nfte8]

 

[prosper]

What's wrong with 2 umbrella holders next to your handrail? ;-)

 

[mpkelley20]

Hmm...good point! I suppose I could have just skipped the handrail!

The cement guy came back yesterday to fix it. They cut out a small square and then reset it. They also fixed a few areas that I wasn't happy with. One area where the color release either didn't take or they just missed and then fix a few cracks that are already popping up. When I got home yesterday i was NOT happy with the results. Not sure if its a simple issue of newly poured cement that is appearing darker until it dries but I have a call into the cement guy. He told me I wouldn't notice the work after they were done, however, that is clearly not the case. Hoping this is just a "wet concrete/sealer" issue and that it will blend in as it dries.

If that's not the case, I am unsure as to how this can be fixed/blended. Whatever the case, I am NOT happy!!!!

Here is the area by the railing that was "fixed" as well as the top portion where they added more color and resealed.




This is the "big" crack they fixed using what looks like a charcoal color that is supposed to match the color release. They also sealed here too so it is looking shiny compared to the rest.




So again, not sure if I am just worrying about nothing since the overall deck has lightened up a lot since initially poured and the fixes just need time. Or is this a bigger issue because it wasn;t done right. The cement guy has been awesome to me so far and he is hoping I will recommend him to other cusotmers in the area so I am keeping faith that my worries are overblown...

 

[prosper]

How long did the concrete guy wait after original pour to cut in controlled-break joints?
He should have done it the day after.

Hopefully he installed some good rebar to control the breaks from spreading into gaps.

Concrete is gonna crack, they just need to try to encourage it to crack in certain places by using the cut joints.
Then the rebar keeps the sections from spreading once cracked.

You'll be the one to notice all the cracks, since you paid for it and it's yours.
Just about everyone else will not even notice or care.

I think trying to fix minor things usually makes them more noticeable.
That one big crack should have been avoided with a proper control joint, but it's still a great looking pool. Just adds character. ;-)

The misplacement of the railing jig was a bonehead move. Someone needs a dope slap over that one.
I skipped all railings and ladders on my pool under construction now. Had them with my first pool and I hated them. Installed them first year, then they stayed in the shed for 8 years.
We use a swimout in the deepend and just stairs in the shallow end.
I figure if they can't walk up the stairs without a railing, they probably need to hold someones hand in the pool anyway.

 

[mpkelley20]

Umm..I am pretty sure there was no rebar used in the construction of my deck! In fact, none of the companies I talked to about doing the work even mentioned rebar in the process. Most/all described laying the forms, using a gravel base and then pouring the concrete.......you can see the build of my deck a page or two back. It was a pretty quick job pouring righ on top of the gravel which had been compacted down.

On a good note, the controlled break joints were done as you suggested...the following day after it was poured.


But now you have me scared......

 

[Carnut12]

I just noticed your old pics, that is Crazy that they did not use any rebar or wire mesh, it looks like they just put it over dirt. I would get something in writing from a warranty standpoint. It should not be cracking like that already, that is crazy.

How much did you pay per square foot for that? Out my way Stamped is about $11.

 

[mpkelley20]

It was more gravel than dirt. But I doubt that makes much of a difference...

Around here stamped goes between 6.50 to $10 a square foot. It was pretty standard from the multiple places I brought in. Most were around $8. I paid $7 a square foot which was a little cheaper than normal price from the guy but I had him build two large retaining walls as well so I got better pricing.

I guess I need to have another conversation with him...

 

[Sacman11]

No Rebar in the concrete? That is not good especially in your case where you had alot of the ground around the pool disturbed and backfilled. Concrete and rebar are like ying and yang, you dont do one without the other.

I would have a serious discussion with your PB and your concrete guy. Not sure how cool you get in the winter months but if it gets cold enough were ground temps are below freezing you are going to have nothing but issues with that pool deck cracking/shifting/lfiting etc.

I am in the prcoess of building a pool and it is standard in my area for concrete guys to do rebar square pattern rebar in the entire deck 12" to 15" on center. Without rebar concrete has no chance of staying together.

Not to get you upset but this may be your only opportunity to address this with your contractor I am not sure what they were thinking?

I suppose that is why I keep seeing these crazy low price per sq ft quotes people are posting down in the USA. $10 for stamped is like giiving it away where I am from. Here are costs for stamped concrete is about $15-$18 and it all comes with rebar.

 

[Sacman11]

I noticed you have a concrete coping for the pool. This is a real concern without rebar as well. In order to concrete coping correctly they should have tied right into the side of the pool walls with rebar in order to ensure that if anything moves it moves together. You are in real danger of either your pool shifting slightly and your coping not moving whcih will cause severe craking, or your coping shifting and your pool not moving (more likely) which will still end up bad for the coping.

Man I cant beleive your pool builder or your concrete guy would even allow you to do this without rebar in the deal!

 

[prosper]

Some places are using the fiber in the cement mix to take the place of rebar.

They use 5000psi fiber concrete.

The place I used on my first pool used 3500psi fiber concrete and rebar. That deck was huge at 3000 sq/ft+ and it only cracked at the control joints. Not a single crack elsewhere.

Exactly why I used them again for my current pool being built.
Although, this time he used 5000psi concrete with rebar.

 

[mpkelley20]

Honestly....I have no knowledge of how cement work "works".

The coping used a cantilever edging that was put around the pool before the cement was poured. It had some type of stuff on it that stuck out but don't think it was rebar.

I've left a message with the concrete guy. Hopefully have a conversation with him tonight or tomorrow.

I'm going home to drink now.

 

[Sacman11]

I looked over your pictures of the concrete pour. An example of what I am talking about and what is not surprising is the fact that the major crack occured in the exact area that the PB dug up to fix the leak at the light. This is not surprising since that area was dug up and then backfilled, what has most likely happened is the ground has already settled slightly under your concrete and that cause the crack. I would imagine if you are seeing that type of substaintial cracking in your deck already it is only going to get worse and worse. Did the compact the ground before pouring the concrete. Best practice is to compact the decking area with a 700-1000lb compact machine for a couple of hours, then soak let rest and compact again. The more compacting the less likely you will have settling. How much compacting was done? Another common practice where I am from is to use a Geo Textile material about 6"-8" below grade and then backfill with 3/4 down crush gravel, then compact the heck out of it.

If none of this was done I would think seriously about negotiating with your concrete guy to rip it out and do it again as crazy as this may sound right now.

 

[Sacman11]

Honestly....I have no knowledge of how cement work "works".

The coping used a cantilever edging that was put around the pool before the cement was poured. It had some type of stuff on it that stuck out but don't think it was rebar.

I've left a message with the concrete guy. Hopefully have a conversation with him tonight or tomorrow.

I'm going home to drink now.

What you seen on the cantilever edging was simpy the styrafoam form used to get the shape for your coping edge. If they didnt use rebar in the deck they definatley didnt use it in the coping. I can see from your pictures that these guys dont have much experience with pouring concrete for pool decks, even their stamping process is flawed. You can correct me if I am wrong but from the pics it appears they waited until the entire deck was poured before they started the coloring agent and the stamping process which means more than half the deck would have been setting up and hardening well before they began to stamp. What will happen as a result is what you are seeing with color sparcity and inconsistency. In the short term it will look ok, in the long term color will fade to nothing, the concrete will begin to peel and you will have nothing but issues.

 

[mpkelley20]

Some places are using the fiber in the cement mix to take the place of rebar.

They use 5000psi fiber concrete.

The place I used on my first pool used 3500psi fiber concrete and rebar. That deck was huge at 3000 sq/ft+ and it only cracked at the control joints. Not a single crack elsewhere.

Exactly why I used them again for my current pool being built.
Although, this time he used 5000psi concrete with rebar.

Ok....this sounds familiar. I know he used 5000psi cement and he said something about adding something to the mix to strengthen it. I am thinking that he may have said fiber but can't confirm until I speak with him

I called references and saw work he did that was new as well as several years old. I even spoke to a local pool builder that uses him for most of the decks so I was feeling pretty good about my decision.

Guess ill find out if I missed something major.

 

[mpkelley20]

I looked over your pictures of the concrete pour. An example of what I am talking about and what is not surprising is the fact that the major crack occured in the exact area that the PB dug up to fix the leak at the light. This is not surprising since that area was dug up and then backfilled, what has most likely happened is the ground has already settled slightly under your concrete and that cause the crack. I would imagine if you are seeing that type of substaintial cracking in your deck already it is only going to get worse and worse. Did the compact the ground before pouring the concrete. Best practice is to compact the decking area with a 700-1000lb compact machine for a couple of hours, then soak let rest and compact again. The more compacting the less likely you will have settling. How much compacting was done? Another common practice where I am from is to use a Geo Textile material about 6"-8" below grade and then backfill with 3/4 down crush gravel, then compact the heck out of it.

If none of this was done I would think seriously about negotiating with your concrete guy to rip it out and do it again as crazy as this may sound right now.

The answer about compacting was that they did a lot of it. They had a machine that went around the entire area several times on several days compacting everything in and then they would add more gravel and compact that in. The day prior to pouring they did it a third time adding more and compacting it down. So I feel good about that.

As for experience with pools, this guy is used by a local pool guy as the main installer of decks so he does a lot. I vidited two of them and they looked great. As for the stamping, they began the stamping after they poured as you suspected. However, the pouring only took 45 minutes or so in total. Not sure when it's "too late" to apply the color and stamp but it was around 45 minutes or less. It was quite fast.

 

[mpkelley20]

I confirmed with my deck guy that they used fiber concrete....so I guess I will wait and see how the deck holds up. Other than the one main area where I had surface cracking, it has done fine. I suppose the new england winter will be the true test....

Funny thing about my entire build....of all the things I had to select, I did everything right but one in my opinion. I love how everything came out so far but I regret not sticking with my original plan to just do standard concrete for the deck. I grew up with it and I always found it to be pleasing to eye, non slippery, not very hot and easy to repair cracks. But, I listened to everyone about how it will LOOK compared to other options like stamped or pavers. So I gave in to peer pressure and ended up with a deck that LOOKS great but is vastly inferior in my eyes to standard concrete.

First, even with the grit based sealer, it is wayyyyyyy slick. Within 30 seconds, both my kids had slipped first time on it. It has gotten better with time but I think it has to do with sand/dirt that has blown onto the patio from wind which makes it less slippery. I'm afriad to wash it off! Second, it definitely gets hot. Not burning hot like some surfaces but it does get hot. Finally, I am now stuck treating it every other year with sealer. Although, I am thinking that maybe I will let the ealer wear off and just let it be. I know color may fade?? Anything else to worry about?

Everyone else who has been to my pool loves it and can;t stop talking about it. But....it's not what I wanted so I will just live with it and secretly hope that I need to replace it at some point. LOL!!


And an update on the rest of the process, fence is done. All I have left is to do the landscaping inside the pool area (still looking for pink flamingos ). I had topsoil delivered to start building my flower areas but the weather has been mid 90's here so too hot for me to spend doing yeard work when I can be swimming (pool water is 86 without heater on!) Also still need furniture. Using an old table set for now but this won't stay long!









And with gates finally added!

 

[crek31]

Your final product looks awesome! Congrats!!

 

[mpkelley20]

Thanks! Still deciding on what to plant around the pool. I definitely need some flowers and bushed though! Lot's of options so I am taking my time. Plus I need to do some cleanup around the filter and hang all the signs I bought. It does feel good to be 99% done though. Beer tastes much better now!