New Pool: Hayward Omnilogic

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
As a quick update/observation.

When in "spa mode" (1) and (2) are facing left and left. I noticed that I saw not only "bubbles" coming out from the spa return but pool return (very odd).
I noticed that in the filter pump basket, the water is not full (like in "pool mode") so seems like it's not draining fluidly, and I believe this is what causes the "No Water Flow Flowsensor Error".
 

CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
Those valves are in the right position in spa mode, if you're getting ANY flow into the pool returns...........something isn't right. Those valves are re-buildable and it's not that difficult. We've seen times where they leak, but that's normally leaking water outside of the valve.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
Besides a leak or wrong configuration, could there be a reason during "spa mode" the water filter basket does not fill up completely? Is this acceptable behavior? I would say it's about 50-60% full.

To simplify everything, here is the quick summary in hopes
Having (6) closed keeps the spa full
Having (7) closed keeps the spa full
Having (6) closed and on spillover mode when spa empty, fills the spa back up
Having (7) closed and on spillover mode when spa empty, does not fill the spa back up

This suggests to me (7) is the main spa return and (6) is what drains the spa where water from (7) basically goes out this way.

Any idea what (6) might be for?
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
Haha yes! I guess better phrased - any ideas of what it can be or how I can further test this? From looking at pool/spa plumbing diagrams on the internet, I have not seen any of these configurations but some of them seem to suggest it is a spa make-up valve which I don't seem to understand fully what it is for or why it would be there.

Also, separately, is the water filter basket not being 99% full of water during spa mode, an issue or acceptable behavior?
 

CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
I'm not even slightly sure what that line would be or the reasoning behind it. Looking at your pictures, it seems that you don't even have actual hydrotherapy jets installed, thus the water just comes out of the piping. I would probably setup your valves so all water is going through #6, then ensure pump is on AND water is flowing somewhere..........then figure out where. Although not easy, you could also pull the top of the valve off (6 or 8 phillips screws) and stuff/seal a shop vac hose into the pipe and blow air through there. It can be hard to seal.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
Randy - thank you very much for all your help so far. I am going to try to keep the setup as is (with only change being (6) closed).

(4, 5, 6, 7) are open (3) is closed
Currently it runs 7am-8am on Spillover Mode (which fills the spa)
Runs 8am -6pm on Pool Mode (spa starts emptying once it goes into this mode)

By keeping (6) closed, based on what we know, spa won't drain overnight.

If everything else seems to run as expected, perhaps I may have to live without knowing what (6) is for.

I have tried what you mention (all water through (6)), which is just closing (7) and (2) being in "spa mode"
When starting with an empty spa, this DOES NOT fill the spa
When starting with a full spa, it does not drain the spa but unclear what it is doing.

I have been trying to get a hold of the original plumber (who set this up), it has been weeks though so I am not hopeful.

Thank you.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
As an update, it's been several days now on the setting where I have (6) closed.
The spa has not drained this has been done.

When it runs spillover mode from 7am to 8am, the spillover is lot more significant than before (see video below)
Before it used to just trickle down hugging the wall, the video shows it pouring out like a spout.
Not sure if this mean anything, I guess possible function of (6) being closed so not being drained in a different location.

Any other ideas on how to figure out what (6) does would be appreciated!
 

CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
First off, GOOD NEWS! I honestly have no idea what #6 does, but it sounds like it puts some water "elsewhere" when it's open and in spillover mode.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
Is that good news? I think the good news is I have learned a lot! I am concerned that by doing this , and not doing what it is doing, I am potentially doing more damage.
Also, I am afraid to try out the other function such as heating the spa in case that can cause an issue.
I guess I will try given its been several days and report back.
 

CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
I can't think of any reason leaving that valve off could hurt anything at all. As long as your pump is working right (not starving for water or pushing through restricted plumbing, which I don't think it is) you'll be fine. Pool builders are a strange breed and they do things that most people wouldn't understand A LOT. I know!
 
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dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
I tried to turn on the heater so I went into "spa mode" and then turned on the heater. Unfortunately I got the no waterflow sensor error which I believe it means not enough water is going into the filter pump.
 

CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
You actually have two devices that sense water flow. We're you getting the water flow error on the Omni? If yes, did your heater display read "LO" as well? It was hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks as though you have a heater bypass plumbed in and those valves would have to be correct to get water through the heater.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
I am getting this error (on the omnilogic) without the heater. The filter pump basket (is full when water is draining from the pool) but in "Spa Mode" you can clearly see it is only half full.
I will take a look at the heater as well but given the heater comes after the filter pump, this probably affects the heater as well.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
I seem to have found what the mystery [6] valve does. As a reminder, when this was open, the spa drained.
I was trying to heat up my spa yesterday and I noticed with [6] open, warm water was coming out of one of the tubes in the pool.
Once I shut [6], no water came out of the tube. The tube is a white circular hole on the side of the pool.

This suggests that there is both a "spa return" and a "pool return" on one side --> can this make sense for any reason?

Lastly, it seems like my spa does not drain properly on my own because in "spa mode", you can see the filter pump basket struggle to stay full of water.
Attached again is the picture of the bottom of my spa.
Does anyone have any idea which of the 4 should be my spa drain? (I assume the other two is for the jet pump).
Is there a way to see/test to make sure it is functioning properly?

Thank you.
 

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dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
In my attempt to figure out why the filter basket was not "full of water" during "spa mode", I discovered something strange (at least to me).
I had mentioned in an earlier post that during "pool mode", only 1 of the 2 skimmers in the pool seemed to be suctioning properly.
I noticed today that the other skimmer (they are diagonally across from each other on the pool), was operating/suctioning in "spa mode".
This seems very strange to me. This is essentially what "spillover mode" should be doing.

Given how long this thread has been, I am going to just do a quick summary with the picture Randy has made for me.

[1] - actuator valve that turns automatically when I switch from Pool, Spillover, Spa Modes (3 total), drain side
[2] - actuator valve that turns automatically, same as [1] but on return side
[3] - Unclear what this is but it is always closed
[4] - Most likely Pool Main Drain
[5] - Pool skimmer (only one of two operates)
[6] - this is what had been draining my spa and now it seems like it returns to the pool
[7] - Most likely Spa Return

"Pool Mode"
[1] and [2] have handles facing right.
This seems to be operating OK except for the fact that only 1 of 2 skimmers seem to have suction
If [6] is open, the Spa drains, if [6] is closed, Spa is full --> when open in "Spa Mode", and I have the heater on, I feel the warm water coming out into the pool

"Spillover Mode"
[1] have handle facing right
[2] have handle facing left
This seems to be operating OK and the only difference with "Pool Mode" is now the return goes into the Spa, causing a "spillover" effect.
When [6] was also open, the spillover would be less strong as it seems like now it was returning back to the pool as well

"Spa Mode"
[1] have handle facing left
[2] have handle facing left
This seems to be taking water from the skimmer that did NOT work in "Pool Mode" and returning it to the spa.

The strange behavior of:
- Having a return pipe on the spa side to the pool [6]
- Pool Skimmer operates in "Spa Mode" which suggests the pipe to the left of [1] is the skimmer pipe, which then begs the question, where is the spa drain pipe

is basically I guess what I have reduced my original problem/question of "Why does my spa drain".

Can anyone make sense of any of this? Or perhaps there is a small tweak I can make to correct this?

Thank you.
 

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dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
Perhaps I should start a new thread but putting it here for now.
Thank you everyone for taking a look and special thanks to Randy for walking me through the process.

I got in touch with someone more familiar with the pipes and got a run-down. I have not been able to test/confirm it yet though.

[1] - Pipe to the left is a pool skimmer drain (1 of 2 skimmers)
[2] - Pipe to the right is a pool return
[3] - This is the spa drain
[4] - This is the pool drain
[5] - This is another skimmer drain (pool has 2 skimmers)
[6] - This is another pool return (like [2])
[7] - This is spa return

Asides from all the questions on the weird set up, I guess my next step is trying to figure out what is the best way to fix this.

Given the valve actuator position [1], we probably need to swap the pipe on the left with the pipe leading to [3].
This way, 2 pool skimmers and 1 pool drain will be on one side while the spa drain will be on the opposite side for the valve actuator to work.

On the return side, it can be fixed by keeping [6] closed or possibly adding a valve actuator there.
However, I don't understand why you would have a pool return on the same side as the spa return.
Otherwise, i would think [7] needs to be a pool return and the pipe to the right of [2] become the spa return.
THen would reprogram so the valve actuators recognize that.

Any tips/advice on the new set up will be appreciated!
 

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CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
Just want to clean up the verbiage a little and ask clarifying question, to ensure we're using common terms. The confusion is the term "skimmer drain" because skimmers and drains are specifically two different things and it's one or the other, not both.

[1] - Pipe to the left is a pool skimmer drain (1 of 2 skimmers) This is either skimmer 1 (or 2) or main drain, not both.
[2] - Pipe to the right is a pool return
[3] - This is the spa drain Spa Main Drain (the ones on the floor)
[4] - This is the pool drain Pool Main Drains?
[5] - This is another skimmer drain (pool has 2 skimmers) Maybe this is Skimmer #2? You would have to confirm
[6] - This is another pool return (like [2])
[7] - This is spa return

You are 100% correct in the confusion as to why you'd have a second pool return valved along with the spa return. Makes zero sense!

The second bit that doesn't make sense is that #3 would be the spa main drain. The sole purpose of Valve #1 is to either pull water from the pool or the spa. Period. When it's in one position, the pump only gets water from the pool via Skimmer #1, Skimmer #2 or Pool Main Drains. When valve #1 is in the "other" position, it should only pull from Spa Main Drains. I think you stated earlier that you've never had valve #3 open. You'll need to verify if that info is correct, I don't think it's correct as listed above.
 

dobakmit

Active member
Jul 9, 2020
26
New Jersey
Thank you Randy. The second bit that does not make sense is because it does not make any sense. Hence, my post was what is the best way to fix this.
My current setup is such that [1] valve actuator is taking water from Pool Skimmer #1 and Pool Drain #1 in "pool mode" and taking water from Pool Skimmer #2 in "spa mode".
It is not utilizing [3] which is the Spa Drain at all. As a result, would need to swap [3] with the pipe to the left of [1] for it to make sense.

[1] - This is Pool Skimmer #2
[3] This is the Spa Main Drain (on the floor)
[4] This is the Pool Main Drain (on the floor)
[5] This is Pool Skimmer #1

If you remember, one of my pool skimmers "did not work", I found out why, it is because it is piped twice and one was always "closed" during "pool mode".

I hope the clarification helps.
 

CPS Reno

In The Industry
Feb 6, 2019
97
Reno, NV
You stated you hadn't verified everything yet, which you absolutely should do before you make any changes. But, you're correct on the changes you described above.