New Pool Construction

[Marcio Santos]

Hi All, I am new to this forum and wanted to hear some opinions on pool size. I am getting a new pool installed this fall on a 1/4 acre property. I am hiring a highly reputable pool company on LI, New York. This is a rectangular vinyl lined pool with 10" concrete walls and 8' deep end. I wanted to post here mainly to hear others opinions on pool size. I originally selected an 18'x40' rectangular pool, but I am considering upgrading to a 20'x40'. Is an 18'x40' and odd size for a pool? looking around in my neighborhood, I don't see too many pools that are 40' in length. One big consideration in changing the width to 20' is that I will be paying extra $$ not just for the larger pool size, but also because I am having vinyl covered staircase into the pool spanning the entire width. Aside from the added expense to build a bigger pool, what are some of the other things to consider when building a larger pool? Does the extra 2' in width really make a noticeable difference ? Is the added maintenance and upkeep considerably more for a pool this size when compared to smaller pools ? Obviously the are many benefits to consider such as more swimming space, more people in the pool, etc. I am curious to hear from others experience what are some of the draw backs from a larger pool besides the added cost to build. any other constructive feedback on this design is greatly appreciated. Design is currently a work in progress.
Thank you!

 

[needsajet]

Just my two cents, your length is most important because of the diving board - you want the upslope fairly far from the diving board.

Volume wise, the bigger the pool the more stable the water chemistry. Reaching out with a brush or a scoop to pick something out of the water is the only disadvantage aside from cost with extra width I can think of. Will it be closed in winter? That's extra water to replace I suppose.

You'll have lots of socializing on the steps/ledges so I guess for really big groups the extra width might be good.

Heating is mostly about surface area, so that's something to think about.

At 18 by 40, it's already a big pool! Looks like a fun project!

 

[Marcio Santos]

Yes, pool will be closed in the winter. Season for us on Long Island typically runs from mid May to mid September. I will be adding a heat pump as well. I am working on a second revision to my design that extends the pavers out closer to the end of the house on the top right of the daylight drawing. I feel as it is shown right now with the gazebo at the edge of the patio, it doesn't flow too well aesthetically. At the same time, I feel that i am going to end up with too much patio not to mention the added $$.
As shown right now the distance from the back of the house and the edge of the pool is about 20'.
the distance from the flower bed wall behind the lounge chairs and the edge of the pool is about 8'. The other two sides will have approximately 5' of patio around the perimeter of the pool.
Part of the reason for wanting to extend the width of the pool to 20' is because is cheaper to add pool size than it is to add patio around it. If I end up extending the pool size to 20'x40', I would have a patio area roughy 18'x45'. Is this still too much patio? is there such as thing as too much patio ? I am trying to come with a design that's well balanced between pool and patio at the same time I don't want to break the bank with an excessive design.

 

[needsajet]

Haha, no I love patio space, so it can't be too big for me, lol.

Basically in landscape design, the first step is to determine how you intend to use it, and to maintain it. So where does the lawnmower go, the garbage cans, etc. Imagine moving through the space doing chores, putting away tables and chairs, cleaning it, hanging laundry, etc. Then imagine moving through it just enjoying it, sunbathing, going for a dip, back to sunbathing, getting a beer, listening to music or reading, dancing, waking up with a hangover. Do you want a veggie patch. Do you want an area shaded by a tree in summer, how does that work. If maintenance is hired out, how will they get in to do the work without bothering you or them. Where do the clippings go, all that stuff. How old are the kids. Do they like to kick a ball around, play lawn darts, blow bubbles, does that work, etc. Are there teens who like an area where they can talk and not be heard. What's a big annual party, how many people. Can you get to the toilet while dripping wet. Do you want to be able to go from house to pool in the dark or privately. Do you want to be able to leave kids in the yard unsupervised (might need pool fence or automated cover). Any pets to think about and what they might like or accidentally do. Those sort of questions.

Then how to use the pool, do you want to play volleyball, or basketball, or water polo, or lounge around, etc. Do you want a beach area or baja shelf. Any little kids or grandkids, i.e. not swimmers for a while?

 

[jimmythegreek]

18x40 is a big pool, 20x40 is largest max size without going custom. Not a bid difference in feel honestly. For that size and a diving board I recommend 8.5 to 9 ft. 8 is minimum for diving and a spring board can get adults airborne.
That's a big patio too. If pricing by sqft use it wisely. I try to lay out areas and connect with walkways to save some $$. When just having one huge area alot doeant get used you pay for. Also have to watch impervious coverage I'm guessing you have limits amd 1/4 acre isnt alot
The side the shrubs are on 4ft is all you need. Add a little to lounger side they are close to stairs you want room there. Put a bump down in width in between the gazebo amd to the left area to designate 2 seperate areas

 

[SchubeyDew]

I previously had a pool that was bean shaped and was 33’ long with the narrowest part being 12’ across and the widest being 16’. I was able to have a lot of parties there but about a dozen people in the pool was as much as you would want and obviously that was more lounging than swimming around. I just finished designing my pool and was originally 16x30’ on my quotes. One pool builder had much better pricing than the others so I explored the option to bring it out to 20x30 and it added about 7.5% to the overall cost of the build (gunite pool). For me, with the price I am already paying, the extra cost was worth it to avoid buyer’s remorse later. In your situation, either option should equate to a very large (IMO) pool. I would consider if you think more people are likely to be in the pool vs out of the pool. In my past experience, people would generally go in the pool for a little bit and then come out to socialize outside of the pool. Most of the time spent was outside of the pool, so a larger patio might be more beneficial for you. Also, with you living in Long Island, a large part of the year the pool will not be usable but the patio will. Just my thoughts, so take them as you will.

 

[Marcio Santos]

great. thank you for your feedback. I've included updated design pictures showing the following:
-Patio going all the way to the edge of the house for a total of 1628 sq ft of patio. (2d drawing doesnt show the updated patio design going all the way to edge of house)
-pool size increased to 20'x40'
any comments on patio size in relation to pool size ?
any comments on lay out? should I flip the deep end and shallow end ? I like the idea of having the deep in the middle where kids (or adults) can run/jump into the pool from the yard.
I also feel like the lounger area which is 10' long from the wall to the water edge is too big and that I am taking more space than I should on my 1/4 acre lot.

 

[JJ_Tex]

any comments on patio size in relation to pool size ?
any comments on lay out? should I flip the deep end and shallow end ? I like the idea of having the deep in the middle where kids (or adults) can run/jump into the pool from the yard.

In my pool, kids are usually in the deep end and the adults in the shallow end (4-4.5 feet area). In your design the people sitting in the covered patio area will have a much easier time interesting with the people in the deep end than the shallow end. You may consider moving the covered patio down towards the shallow end if you want the adults to better interact with each other. You may even be able to put a TV in the patio and have a good viewing area from the shallow end.

 

[Marcio Santos]

Adding some details of the equipment I would be getting. Decided on a 20x40 rectangular with approximately 1628 sq ft of patio.
Hayward DE 4820 Filter
Hayward 2' DE multiport - SP0715x62
Hayward 2352 vsp pump
Hayward summit xI140 heat pump
Hayward Aqr940 salt system

 

[jimmythegreek]

Hayward sp3202 is a better pump for that size pool that's what I would install.

I would also do an aquaplus bundle it will give you a prologic controller and automation and control the pump as well. Gives you ability to expand to wired or wireless controller too.

Hayward aquaplus bundle - Google Shopping

www.google.com

 

[bmoreswim]

I don’t think you’ll ever feel your deck is too big. Our wooden deck by the house as three picnic tables but its sized so it’s not crowded. By the pool we only have one due to the others being used primarily for eating meals. I’d think that potentially you may want more than one table down the road, which does use up space quickly.

A chaise is roughly 6’ long. However, if you have the back portion overhanging grass or other space, you get more free space at the foot of them, allowing you to decrease the deck space. I’m sure it feels good to get some big decisions made for the project!

 

[Marcio Santos]

Hayward sp3202 is a better pump for that size pool that's what I would install.

I would also do an aquaplus bundle it will give you a prologic controller and automation and control the pump as well. Gives you ability to expand to wired or wireless controller too.

Hayward aquaplus bundle - Google Shopping

www.google.com

I will inquire about the SP3202. I see this is a Tri Star 1.85 HP pump vs a 1.65 for the Max Flow SP23520VSP which is 1.65 HP. Is your recommendation based no HP only or is the Tri Star a better pump ?

Also, good suggestion on the Aqua Plus. I looked up reviews on the Aqua Rite 940 system, and there seems to be consistent negative reviews pertaining the mother board. Are you able to control a heater, pump and salt chlorination, lighting all with this controller as is ? I am not planning on having any spa features, but automation is very appealing to me in that I want to be able to control and automate when the pump runs at the required RPM for the heat pump to work and generate heat. Also, I want to have the ability to control/automate lighting.
I was reading up on the the OmniPL, and in theory it sounded like a great idea until I started reading reviews from Amazon which consistently agree in that this is a horrible purchase (OmniPL that is).

Lastly, I am getting the 2 LPCUS11100 LED lights which is unfortunate. Based on Amazon's reviews this is absolutely overpriced garbage. Is there is a better option for LED lights.

Thank you!!

 

[jimmythegreek]

The tristar is a better pump overall, more power, and the only one I install now. The aquaplus is a re stickered pro logic pl4 board. Its not the latest like the omni, but does everything you need and has relays for addons, it's a great unit I do 90% of my installs with them. Easy to add a remote wired keypad amd cheap too. As for lights any nicheless light is better than hayward/pentair in my opinion. Many fail eventually and you pay for the name. Cmp amd jandy are cheaper as are many no name brands. Just plan to be able to pull wire easily with your conduit layout amd pool light Jbox

 

[Marcio Santos]

construction has begun. Concrete walls poured, plumbing in progress sono tubes in place. We went with the 20x40 and added a bench. One thing the PB says he is not doing anymore due to the several issues he's had recently is the main drains on the deep end. Instead he is giving me two additional returns lower and pointing downwards which you can see on IMG_7271 (1). I know main drain vs returns is a highly debatable topic, but i do like the idea of minimizing the potential for leaks and other issues down the line which the main drains on the bottom of the pool seem to have. So far, i've been extremely satisfied with the process (except for the white picket fence coming down ). Pluming looks excellent with the 2" diameter PVC and PB tells me his pools have better pressure than many other pools! Thoughts, comments, suggestions ??

 

[jimmythegreek]

Looks good he did a nice job with the forms and a clean pour. What's the deal with the PVC standpipes?

 

[Marcio Santos]

I believe those are sono tubes used to provide some reinforcement to the backfill before doing the patio.

 

[jimmythegreek]

They aren't usually up against the concrete wall. The concrete is a great support on its own. They should be in the center of the overdig for concrete deck support. Theres a reason he has them like that. What the patio gonna be? What type of coping?

 

[Marcio Santos]

I am not sure why they are glued to the concrete wall. I have to ask the PB. I too believe it would make more sense for them to be farther away from the pool wall for better support. coping will be 12x24 cambridge paver. Patio will be 3 piece ledge stone Cambridge sherwood collection.