Need to reduce chlorine generation below level possible with SJ-35 controls

[Dirk]

A partial bypass could definitely be done, it would just serve no purpose.

That's settled!

I know what you're saying, but I have no separate SWCG timer. SWCG comes on with power to the pump and runs in 2 hour cycles or so until the pump turns off. I just want it to turn off after an hour and stay off until power to it goes off and comes back on. Simple. Just don't see such a thing out there.

We're shooting in the dark here a bit, as you've yet to provide us a signature that lists your equipment.

But let's say you have a one-speed pump controlled by a separate timer. You need a second timer for the SWG, one that allows you to wire the timer circuit and the line/load circuit separately. You'd wire the timer circuit to a breaker that supplies 24-7 power. That's so the timer can keep time. And then you'd wire the SWG to the load side, but the power source for the load (the line side) would not be wired to the same breaker powering the 2nd timer, it would be wired to the load side of the timer running the pump.

Then you bracket the runtimes. Say the pump runs four hours a day. The SWG's timer would be set to run the SWG within the four hours the pump runs.

If the timers get out of whack (they invariably do), or if the pump timer fails for some reason, it won't matter that the SWG timer is "on" when the pump timer is "off," because the power going to the SWG won't be present (because it's coming from the pump timer, not directly from the breaker).

It's hard to describe with text. But that's how it's done. It's a typical wiring setup when there is a booster pump for a pressure-side vac. You bracket the vac schedule within the pump schedule, but even if the timers lose time, the booster pump can't run unless both timers are on.

Intermatic makes a dual timer that is exactly what you need.

On the off chance the pump timer is on, and the SWG timer is on, but the pump has failed and there is no flow, the resulting dangerous scenario, of an SWG running with no flow, is avoided by the flow switch. That's why you need both safeguards (the wiring and the flow switch).

 

[Dirk]

Intermatic makes many dual timer models that have various capabilities. This one has knockouts for switches (like for overriding the timers, or running yard or pool lights).

Intermatic T10004R Dual Timer Power Center With T104 Timer

The Intermatic T10004R Dual Timer Power Center With T104 Timer is a great choice for your pool needs! Get yours today from Pool Warehouse!

www.poolwarehouse.com

Other models have knockouts for circuit breakers, etc.

They come with wiring instructions for both independent timers use, or this "symbiotic" use I've been describing.

You don't necessarily have to buy a new dual timer, you can just add a second timer. But you gotta add the right one. If the timer powers itself and the load (the SWG) with the same source of power, that's what your DON'T want. It has to be one where the power source for the timer and the power source for the load can be separate.

 

[Dirk]

I just want it to turn off after an hour and stay off until power to it goes off and comes back on. Simple. Just don't see such a thing out there.

I believe what you've been trying to communicate that you want is something called a timer relay. One that doesn't have a way to set specific on and off times, but rather turns something on or off after a user-adjustable delay, once it is powered on. There are such things. As far as I know, they're not used for pool equipment. I suppose they could be, but there may or may not be a glaring safety issue with them that disqualifies them for pool equipment use. I wouldn't know.

Here are some examples. Not an endorsement, more like a proof of concept. There may be brands and models suitable for the volts/amps and wet location requirements of a pool pad, I didn't research that.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/overview/catalog/relays_-z-_timers/timer_relays

At least you now know what to google! Just be careful. Pool electrical is not like house electrical. If you do something goofy indoors, you pop a breaker, or maybe get a 120V jolt. But if something is unsafe in a pool, it could be 240V and result in serious injury or worse (like, the ultimate worst). I always advise you use a licensed electrician that specializes in pool wiring to mod anything for a pool.

 

[Dirk]

Here's the "symbiotic" wiring scheme I'm talking about. This is assuming everything is either 120V OR 240V, not some of each. You need to be aware of which devices get what voltage, including the clocks!

Note how both timers (clock motors) are connected to the supply. And the filter pump fires up according to the timer settings of the left clock. The SWG (substitute "Cleaner" with "SWG") fires up according to the timer settings of the right clock, but only if the filter pump is also getting juice.

If the two timers get out of sync, and the right clock tries to power on the SWG, no harm. The right relay might close, but the SWG won't power up if the left relay isn't also closed.

 

[SteveinSC]

Thanks for that, and yes I checked out that link and amazon in general. A 24-hour timer is probably the best option. For example use four sets of actuators and have it power the SWG for one hour out every six when pump is set to run six hours a day.

Thanks again to all.

 

[SteveinSC]

I believe what you've been trying to communicate that you want is something called a timer relay. One that doesn't have a way to set specific on and off times, but rather turns something on or off after a user-adjustable delay, once it is powered on. There are such things. As far as I know, they're not used for pool equipment. I suppose they could be, but there may or may not be a glaring safety issue with them that disqualifies them for pool equipment use. I wouldn't know.

Here are some examples. Not an endorsement, more like a proof of concept. There may be brands and models suitable for the volts/amps and wet location requirements of a pool pad, I didn't research that.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/overview/catalog/relays_-z-_timers/timer_relays

At least you now know what to google! Just be careful. Pool electrical is not like house electrical. If you do something goofy indoors, you pop a breaker, or maybe get a 120V jolt. But if something is unsafe in a pool, it could be 240V and result in serious injury or worse (like, the ultimate worst). I always advise you use a licensed electrician that specializes in pool wiring to mod anything for a pool.

Appreciate that info. At least I know the terminology and that is key. Could probably run one down. Put it in a waterproof box. Familiar with wiring pool systems. Not much I haven't had to deal with in the past 20 years I've had a pool. Just using a basic 24-hour timer with a little imagination is probably the easiest option.

 

[SteveinSC]

And at this level of usage that SWG might last me 20 years. Last one went twelve. Not a bad problem to have.

 

[proavia]

@Dirk provided the wiring diagram for a dual T104 timer setup to use to control your pump and SWG. This will work well with both the pump and SWG set to use 240v power.
This setup will allow you to lower the run time for the SWG while still running the pump for a specific time period.

Let's say you run your pump for 8hrs/day and from 8am to 4pm.
The SWG time should be set to run within the window of 30 minutes AFTER the pump ON time to 30 minutes BEFORE the pump OFF time. So anywhere within the window 8:30am and 3:30pm for whatever duration you need.

It is important to check the timers at least weekly (the frequency you should be checking your pool equipment anyway) or anytime there has been a power outage. This timer check will take 15-20 seconds max and will keep both timers in sync.

 

[Dirk]

Appreciate that info. At least I know the terminology and that is key. Could probably run one down. Put it in a waterproof box. Familiar with wiring pool systems. Not much I haven't had to deal with in the past 20 years I've had a pool. Just using a basic 24-hour timer with a little imagination is probably the easiest option.

Yes, easiest, but depending on what you mean by "a basic 24-hour timer" that might not be correct.

If you're talking about a cheap, stand-alone timer, that plugs into an outlet and then powers the SWG, then no, that's not the way to go.

You need a timer than can control two line terminals and two load terminals, where none of those terminals are hardwired to the source that powers the timer's clock (analog or digital, doesn't matter).

It's important that you understand the difference. I'm not implying you don't, but I'm not reading that you do.

The timer you use must be able to operate a DPST relay (built in or otherwise). That relay must have two line terminals and two load terminals. And then also have terminals or a plug that can draw power from an always-on source (for the timer circuitry). The two line terminals would connect to the load terminals of your existing filter pump timer. The two load terminals of this new timer would then connect to the SWG. This is especially critical if both the pump and the SWG are wired for 240V.

That's how you ensure the SWG cannot get power unless the pump is also getting power, no matter what the status of the actual timer settings are, no matter if the two timers are out of sync or otherwise failing.

The reason I'm harping on this is because of the possibility of creating a dangerous situation if you do this wrong. You cannot rely on the flow switch alone. Because if the flow switch fails, and the SWG is energized while the pump is not, you'll get a build up of chlorine gas in the plumbing which can cause an explosion (so I've been told).

 

[proavia]

Just using a basic 24-hour timer with a little imagination is probably the easiest option.

Nope - that is how someone get hurt or worse.

You need

• Two Intermatic T104 timers (or equivalent)
• 240v power - which will power both timers, the pool pump amd the SWG - on a single 240v breaker
• Set pump and SWG to use 240v power
• Use and follow the wiring diagram that @Dirk provided in post #24

If you don't fully understand any of this and are not comfortable doing electrical wiring, hire a competent electrician and show him this thread and the wiring diagram in post #24.

While there may be other ways to accomplish what you desire, this is a tried and true method.

 

[mgtfp]

The reason I'm harping on this is because of the possibility of creating a dangerous situation if you do this wrong. You cannot rely on the flow switch alone. Because if the flow switch fails, and the SWG is energized while the pump is not, you'll get a build up of chlorine gas in the plumbing which can cause an explosion (so I've been told).

Here is an example:

Help,, my pipe exploded !!!

Hi Everyone This morning I was sitting in my kitchen and I heard a massive bang.. sounded like a bomb or something. I went out and the pvc pipe exploded and water was going everywhere..I turned off the pump obviously. I have a plumber coming out to fix it. But how did this happen. Any...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

+3. You are literally producing gas with the SWG. It's well dispersed into the pool with proper flow, but relying on a 19 cent flow switch from a 3rd world country is only going to go one way. It will fail and there is zero question about it. We can bicker about how long it will take, but it will fail.

 

[SteveinSC]

I am simply talking about having the second 220V leg from the intermatic filter timer that currently leads to the SWCG instead leading to a second identical intermatic timer that in turn powers the SWCG, Because power to the SWCG timer will be provided by the filter pump timer, the SWCG will not run unless the filter pump is running.

 

[Bperry]

I am simply talking about having the second 220V leg from the intermatic filter timer that currently leads to the SWCG instead leading to a second identical intermatic timer that in turn powers the SWCG, Because power to the SWCG timer will be provided by the filter pump timer, the SWCG will not run unless the filter pump is running.

What kind of pump do you have? Some pumps have switched 220V leads you can use to power the SWCG timer.

 

[Newdude]

Another option : I didn't install a SWG timer because I knew I'd run 24/7, so there is nothing to schedule. My SWG is shared on the pump breaker and in the event of a power failure to the pump, the SWG gets cut too.

On the off chance that the pump dies but still has power, then I rely on the flow switch. It's still a risk but it's greatly diminished versus running a schedule.

Pros of running 24/7 :

Heavy debris doesn't have 12+ hours to get waterlogged and sink, it finds the skimmers no matter when it falls.

I have never once in 12 years wondered if I was filtering enough. It's covered by default.

The SWG keeps me topped off around the clock with less daily FC swing.

I only have to adjust SWG run time and not SWG *and* pump runtime, which as an aside often makes me run hot, another thing I'm a big fan of. When changing 2 parameters there's more chance of getting it wrong and needing to further dial it in, which you'll have to monitor and possibly adjust again. Or you got it right but are cutting it so close that you'll need to adjust it again sooner in the first half of the season.

Cons : it costs $10 to $15 a month over what running a schedule would, but it makes poolcare so simple, I happily spend it.

 

[Dirk]

Another option : I didn't install a SWG timer because I knew I'd run 24/7, so there is nothing to schedule. My SWG is shared on the pump breaker and in the event of a power failure to the pump, the SWG gets cut too.

On the off chance that the pump dies but still has power, then I rely on the flow switch. It's still a risk but it's greatly diminished versus running a schedule.

Pros of running 24/7 :

Heavy debris doesn't have 12+ hours to get waterlogged and sink, it finds the skimmers no matter when it falls.

I have never once in 12 years wondered if I was filtering enough. It's covered by default.

The SWG keeps me topped off around the clock with less daily FC swing.

I only have to adjust SWG run time and not SWG *and* pump runtime, which as an aside often makes me run hot, another thing I'm a big fan of. When changing 2 parameters there's more chance of getting it wrong and needing to further dial it in, which you'll have to monitor and possibly adjust again. Or you got it right but are cutting it so close that you'll need to adjust it again sooner in the first half of the season.

Cons : it costs $10 to $15 a month over what running a schedule would, but it makes poolcare so simple, I happily spend it.

This won't work for him because even at 4-8 hours of filter pump runtime his SWG is overproducing. He can't turn the output of his SWG down low enough. He needs a second timer to run the SWG for only a few hours a day.

 

[Newdude]

This won't work for him

Crud. Foiled by the Ole 'on page 2 and forgot what page 1 was about' again.