Need to add CYA, not holding CL (FC/TC)

[frogabog]

With a CYA of 30ppm, you've GOT to keep FC above 3ppm at all times. This means adding enough bleach either at night, or in the early AM before the sun rises to raise the water's FC to 7ppm. You're going to lose roughly 50% of your chlorine every day. So if you lose 50% of 7ppm, you remain .5ppm above your minimum at day's end. Then you re-dose the water in preparation for the next day.

At these low FC levels you're working with, you're consistently under 3ppm. It's no wonder that the FC is being lost, there isn't nearly enough in there to get you through any one day much less a few hours.

Chlorine is depleted by sun and organics. Elevation has no relevance to this. If you can see the sun and have swimmers, the chlorine will be used daily. Sometimes I can get away without dosing because the clouds shield the UV rays (and no one swims on such days) but by the next day I have to add a full dose just as if it was sunny and people swam.

Bring FC up to 7ppm each night. If you lose more than 4ppm the next day you've got a problem and I'd recommend shocking the water. If it settles at the end of the day at 3.5 or better, rinse and repeat every day.

 

[y_not]

Hey frogabog,

So is 3ppm FC because you need a buffer between the 2 & 4 listed on the chart?
50% loss, is that a normal expectation of daily chlorine loss for pool owners in general, or just at low CYA levels?
I guess I'm just trying to be a minimalist, is it silly of me to only have 30CYA in there?

Thx.

 

[jblizzle]

The key is the minimum FC for your CYA ... you must stay above it. 50% is pretty typical for lower CYA levels.

Bumping up the CYA some would likely reduce the FC ppm you loose every day, but it will also raise the minimum FC and your test does not go above 5ppm right?

What is silly is you not having your own test kit yet

 

[frogabog]

Knowing the weather over there on the other side... it's not Texas or Arizona but it's full sun all day nary a cloud in sight almost all summer. 30 does me fine over here with the intermittent cloud days and mild temps but I would suggest you bring it up to 40ppm eventually.

I'd wait a few days though, and run it dosed to the maximum at the beginning of the day and see where you end up. (or at night - no sun at night and if there are no organics in the water for the chlorine to attack, it should remain near 7 the next am) If 30ppm leaves you losing 50% or less then don't worry about raising it. If you're end of day is routinely 3ppm (or less) raising CYA might serve you well.

Watch for splashout. If it's minimal CYA won't go down very fast. But if kids play in the pool, splashout can leave you adding 2-4 squares of fake tile of new water per week. Couple refills later and CYA is reduced enough to make a difference. Evaporation does not reduce CYA, only splashout.

 

[anonapersona]

You might consider a foot bath at the entrance to the pool, so that grass and dirt stays in a small wash tub and not in the pool. That will lower the organics in the pool, making less work for you and less work for chlorine.

 

[y_not]

The key is the minimum FC for your CYA ... you must stay above it. 50% is pretty typical for lower CYA levels.

OK, so unless I like dumping money in my pool on bleach, CYA this low is a bad idea, yeah?
See, I was trying to get away with as little CL as I could, because I seem to be sensitive to it. Makes me itch, as it horribly dries out my skin. I almost hate going swimming because of it. :|

Bumping up the CYA some would likely reduce the FC ppm you loose every day, but it will also raise the minimum FC and your test does not go above 5ppm right?

Yeah, correct. I can do the dilute method, which works well. Makes me feel like I'm in a lab, playing with beakers & mL measurements, etc...

What is silly is you not having your own test kit yet

Yeah, yeah, I know.
I just don't have the money right now, cost of living over here and the rate of unemployment and gas too, is the absolute highest in the nation. Something like 15/16%. So making a living right now, even though I work for myself, isn't exactly easy. Plus I have been going through some health issues, which hampers my work, which I'm on the way out of finally. YAY!
So I'm working towards that goal, as soon as I can, it's just a lot of dough for me to spend ATM and for the foreseeable future.
This pool has really been bringing me a lot of enjoyment, taking care of it to me is almost more fun than swimming in it. HAHA!
The nerd "mad scientist" in me. HEHE

Knowing the weather over there on the other side... it's not Texas or Arizona but it's full sun all day nary a cloud in sight almost all summer. 30 does me fine over here with the intermittent cloud days and mild temps but I would suggest you bring it up to 40ppm eventually.

Not too far off though, but yeah, we don't get anywhere near as hot, that's really the big thing. Our UV index is higher than AZ due to our elevation. I haven't checked in a while though. What really separates us is that we can get lots of snow/ice in the winter, and at the very least, quite cold then too.
Pretty much, on the clouds part, it's pretty crazy in that way. But we do get these really hazy days, reminds me of the LA valley smog, in fact I think sometimes it is pollution. But most of the time it's just dust & junk in the air from the winds, which we get lots of. It's not always perfect over here, don't let the yuppies in Bend fool ya!

I'd wait a few days though, and run it dosed to the maximum at the beginning of the day and see where you end up. (or at night - no sun at night and if there are no organics in the water for the chlorine to attack, it should remain near 7 the next am) If 30ppm leaves you losing 50% or less then don't worry about raising it. If you're end of day is routinely 3ppm (or less) raising CYA might serve you well.

I'll definitely raise it up, fo' sure!
Adding at night, so how early should I check it? I'm NOT a morning person at all!! Sun rises @ like 6am, but not me. HAHA

Nah, don't have that kind of splashout problem, no kids, except for the nieces that come over off and on throughout the week. But I'll keep an eye on that, I pretty much had that figured, but thank you so much for the confirmation.

You might consider a foot bath at the entrance to the pool, so that grass and dirt stays in a small wash tub and not in the pool.

Yup, been planning to get something.
One of the biggest issues is the horrible vac that came with this puppy!
Know of any hose barb couplings that'll fit these things, hardware store maybe? Or too odd sized? That way I can attach a regular hose style vacuum to it, as the one included uses a water hose to create a venturi effect, all the exiting water goes out through the net on the vac and the particulates get trapped in there. Except for the fact that the sock sucks! Big holes in it, too much returned waste. I might just put another pair of knee-highs in there. Those things are wonderful for pools. THANKS LADIES!! :-D


And thanks again everyone, guys & dolls too, for all your help and awesome knowledge. I have learned soooo much from this forum, browsing and reading, plus pool school.
I always knew there had to be a better way than the store method.

 

[y_not]

So I have been keeping my FC levels at 7ppm every night after the sun goes down. Don't know what it is in the morning, but I never see a color change as it switches to an TC reading on my OTO test, not like I did before, I could detect about 1/2ppm on the color block.

By the end of the day I'm getting about 3-4ppm, sometimes I have felt it's lower, there's just not enough graduations on the block to tell for sure in the middle like that, even doing the dilute method, to be absolutely sure that it's 3ppm, it might read closer to 2.5ppm(0.8x3). I'm really good at detecting slight color variances, density, opacity and the like, but I just despise this color bar. I was massively frustrated and considering just walking away the night before. But I didn't, cause I knew I had to at least put something in there, lest I loose progress. LOL
1.5/3ppm are just sooooo subtle on the bar, the liquid, no, I can see that change n/p, but my gauge is the key for knowing what I'm seeing and if it doesn't work right, well... UGH!
But it's what I'm stuck with for now.

I'm happy that I'm really not seeing a difference between FC/TC from when I initially invert the sample+drops, to when it sits for a few minutes.
In fact, sometimes, not all the time, I'm positive it goes down in color density, it becomes more washed out as it sits for 10-15 seconds or so.
Could TC really be lower than FC? Or is it just a messed up test?
I'm always sure to rinse the vial and caps as well as not use my finger, but sometimes I do, so long as it's clean & free of chlorine on that hand.
It is fresh reagent, in fact I just replaced it about 3 days ago, same manuf, larger vial for a bigger kit/sample size, so just using less drops as per the manuf. recommendations.

I have done some bucket tests, where I started with clean tap water, that didn't register any chlorine on the OTO test, then I played with adding chlorine and testing it on the OTO bar. 1ml of 6% in 5gals = 4ppm according to the minimum reliable reporting by teh pool calc, using metric conversion for better accuracy. So I did 1/4ml /w my syringe, BAM! 1ppm, and so in, in fractional increments.

That, and playing with the dilution by mixing 1-2parts distilled water, so I'm pretty sure I have got it closer then I ever have before in being able to read it. Unfortunately at night, which is when I need it the most, is when it's hardest to discern the color changes in accordance to the bar, due to no natural daylight source avail.

So I started testing just before sundown, when the sun us in the west, behind trees and hills, the pool in absolute shade, maybe an hour before total block of the sun. This OTO reading, often doesn't match what I get at night, which shows lower, so this tells me it's my lighting. Since I can't imagine there would be enough UV exposure left in that little bit of daylight to eat up the difference of 1.5-2.5 ppm that I'll often see it drop by at night.

BTW, It seems to loose most of the FC it's going to for the day, in the morning, before I even test it. Is that pretty normal?

The whole goal here, if it's not unreasonable, or wishful thinking on my part, is that I want to put less chlorine in it each night, or none at all, just every few nights instead. IE. not so frequently.
Especially seeing as the pool has just been sitting there, I haven't gotten in it for almost a week, so no splashout or bather waste, or anything.
Will adding more CYA achieve this, or will I just have to add slightly less bleach each night, but still every night?

I guess I don't know what's normal for the BBB method, for those without chlorinators or SWGs. Yes, taking into account that every pool is different, but is it typical for users of the BBB method to add bleach each night, more or less?
Not that I'm complaining, it's just a little frustrating, not exactly trouble free.

Thanks.

 

[jblizzle]

It is trouble free, but not maintenance free

Adding every one or two days is normal, CYA around 50ppm can help reduce the loss to the sun each day, but you have to maintain higher levels.

I think your life would be less confusing and work if you got the appropriate test kit ... the FAS-DPD.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

 

[y_not]

It's not maintenance free?? MAAAAN!! I want a refund!

So would I still have to dose with 2x the target FC each night /w a higher CYA level, due to 50% FC loss from UV exposure? Or does the 50% loss go down as CYA goes up?

I can just place a bucket next to it, add some more CYA just tot the bucket and test /w that, right? I read you should place it on your steps, what about /w an AGP like mine? No exactly any steps one can balance a bucket on, I suppose I could bungee it. *MacGyver style*

Yeah, I know, it would, wouldn't it? But then I wouldn't be able to pay a bill for the month and that'd really suck. LOL
Soonly.